Marriage Counseling or Coaching - Which One Do You Need?

[00:00:15] Speaker A: Catch us the little foxes. They're feasting on our own. They're cruel. [00:00:25] Speaker B: And we are back after a very long hiatus. Yes, I hope that our three listeners are doing well. [00:00:34] Speaker A: Write us a letter and tell us how you're doing. [00:00:37] Speaker B: Tell us how much you missed it so we can get inflated egos and everything else. [00:00:40] Speaker A: Right. We're changing the world one couple at a time, man. Literally one couple at a time. [00:00:47] Speaker B: Still putting in the work. In for hours as always. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Yes. [00:00:50] Speaker B: The enemy. I don't like the enemy. The enemy is. And he's not a good person. [00:00:58] Speaker A: Hey, you know, I was just thinking because just kind of throwing in here. We had an amazing time. A couple weekends ago we went to a retreat, a very prophetic time. And I had to kind of twist your arm, but weren't you glad you went? [00:01:11] Speaker B: Should listen to me? [00:01:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it was so good. We spent three days of complete, I mean, literally we would get there at like 8 something in the morning and we wouldn't leave until 8 or 9 o' clock at night and we had to drive 40 minutes one way. But it was, and it was, it was long, but it was so good. And I feel like we got a lot of confirmation about, you know, what God has for us. And I just, I just want to encourage couples that listen to this how important it is for you guys. Yes, you need to get away and have fun and do vacation and stuff like that. But there, there's also just this amazing thing of just getting away to a retreat like that and hearing from the Lord together because I feel like God honored that because he knew that that was a sacrifice for both of us. [00:02:00] Speaker B: Well, yeah, God honored it. Boy, the enemy woke up, man, it was intense. Yeah, last week was a horrible week. [00:02:07] Speaker A: So listen, we got so much. So many good things happened to us while we were at this retreat. When we got back, we prayed about you know, really canceling any assignment of the enemy because we knew that he was going to hit us hard. We just didn't know how hard. And so we have been hit pretty hard with lots of different crappy things the last 10 days, which was to be, to be expected, but that we're not going to give up and we're not going to cave and we're not going to be like, fine, we just won't even seek God anymore. We're just going to go back into our hole. [00:02:39] Speaker B: Oh, we're never going to do that. [00:02:41] Speaker A: Yeah, so that's a, that's a like a freebie for anybody listening that just because God called you to something, doesn't mean it's going to be easy. That would be ridiculous to think that, right? [00:02:51] Speaker B: Well, Jesus said himself, the road to heaven is narrow and the enemy has a enemy strong. He can push you either way off of it if you let him. But you got to keep your eyes straight ahead, focus on the Lord. [00:03:03] Speaker A: He likes to play mental game, mind games. And that's really where it all happens, is in the mind. And if you can't be strong and learn how to develop the mind of Christ in your marriage together, both of you, it can be extremely difficult to survive what he sends your way. [00:03:22] Speaker B: It's difficult to survive anyway. But if you don't have a solid rock on your foundation, then it's going to be even harder. [00:03:28] Speaker A: But don't you think, like, even just the way that you think in surrendering even your thought processes to the Lord. [00:03:36] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:03:37] Speaker A: I think one of the reasons we've survived is because we've learned. I think we're still learning. We're always learning. But, okay, I just got in my flesh and I need to back up or recognizing when the enemy's coming at you individually and together. Anyway, he likes to divide and conquer, for sure. So today we thought we would talk about marriage coaching versus counseling, and maybe which one do you need as a. [00:04:04] Speaker B: Couple and the stigma that goes behind them? Nobody wants to admit that. [00:04:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, how many people, how many couples really need to be in counseling or coaching, but they won't because they're ashamed. [00:04:16] Speaker B: I think everybody, every couple should go to counseling at least once every once in a while just to hash out things they don't agree with. Just to get everything out in the open, you know, because there's always going to be one or two things you don't agree on. And if you don't reconcile those through a coach or a counselor, I think that it's going to just sit there and fester, you know, so maybe I'm not saying you gotta do it all the time, you know, but once a year, you know, talk to someone and then if you've got more issues deep down, then you go see them more. [00:04:47] Speaker A: Yeah. I think maybe in the beginning you need to. You need to go through cycles of it. So I think for us, we did a good solid. Would you say, six or nine months? Because you were going individually. I did some individual counseling, too. And then we were going as a couple and getting counseling from the same counselor. [00:05:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:07] Speaker A: And that's before we got into coaching, which we're going to explain in a Minute. What the difference between counseling and coaching is because you really do. You may need either or. Or you may need both. So initially, I would say, because counseling is more about looking back and figuring out what caused this issue. And it's. And it's not. It's not so much about planning and moving forward and building together. It's more about, okay, what happened. Deposit. [00:05:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:05:44] Speaker A: And it could be like, we. We look. And I would highly recommend people. And this. This can get expensive, but we had the va, so it wasn't expensive for us. But I. I think so many times, like, when people go into couples counseling, what. They're just. They're ready to pounce, and they're ready to tell the counselor how bad the other person is. [00:06:04] Speaker B: Yeah. You can't use the counselor as a. As a springboard to attack your spouse. That is not what it is for. I don't think we ever did that. [00:06:11] Speaker A: And I think. Well, I don't think so. I think a couple of times the other person would just kind of like word vomit, you know, and then it would be like, well, I think you. [00:06:20] Speaker B: Feel like you're in a safe space and you can say whatever you want. [00:06:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:24] Speaker A: Because there's a referee there. [00:06:25] Speaker B: There's a referee. There's no pots and pans. There's no knives. No knives anywhere. [00:06:31] Speaker A: And sometimes, you know, I know you gotta hash it out like that, but I think there comes a point in time where you have to. You have to say, okay, we're getting. We're not getting any further along by constantly looking back and. [00:06:46] Speaker B: Right. [00:06:47] Speaker A: I think, you know, if you have a good counselor, they'll tell you that, hey, guys, we have looked at back as much as we can. [00:06:55] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:06:55] Speaker A: And I think you're at a point where we need to start looking forward. Well, that's kind of where a counselor, they can provide some input and kind of help you, but they're not really trained to do coaching. [00:07:05] Speaker B: No, they're really not. Counselors aren't coaches. Counselors sit there and listen to your problem, and they try to give you moderation more. They moderate, I guess, call it. Huh? [00:07:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that they. So, because I've been trained to counsel, and one of the things that you're taught to do is not to tell people what to think. You're actually kind of trying to let them have a revelation as they thought, or you are there to say, hey, you know, I mean, why do you believe that? Because a lot of times what you're hearing is they're believing these lies. Which is where so much of the difficulty in a marriage comes from, is because one or both people believe lies about themselves, about each other. And they literally, that lie to them is truth. And so they built their whole marriage or their whole situation on this lie. And the counselor's job is to say is to question that. Is this really the truth, this thing you're believing? Because, you know, they're outside and they're objective and they can see if someone's believing something that's not benefiting them because it's not true. Because we know that anything that's not true is obviously a lie. All lies come from Satan and they all breed destruction. [00:08:15] Speaker B: They all do. [00:08:15] Speaker A: They all do. So I think for us, there was a time that we had to look back because I'm like, why in the heck did this just happen? Like, I had no idea about your ptsd. I mean, you had told me before, but I thought it was like, okay, well, you're good. You handled it. I didn't know that it was like, so deep down. [00:08:34] Speaker B: Well, it's just as much my fault. You know, I thought that I had that control. I didn't control mine for 20 years before it finally came to a head. But, you know, that. Yeah. Yeah, that was definitely one of the issues behind us is. [00:08:51] Speaker A: Well, I think so many people that do have the severity of PTSD or any kind of mental disorder like that, they don't know how bad it is. [00:09:01] Speaker B: Right. And there's other guys out there who. [00:09:03] Speaker A: Are worse than I. Yeah, yeah. Like, they can't even. Like, their personal hygiene is like, they don't take baths, they don't brush their teeth because they're so messed up. They don't go out in public. [00:09:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Families fall apart. And the one thing about a vet, if you take everything from him, he has nothing else to live for. And not the vet's fault, you know. Well, there are some actions that are in excuses. You know, physical violence is never a thing. But now if a vet is full blown flashback, the best thing you can do is just stay present. But stay away from because. [00:09:41] Speaker A: Stay away. [00:09:42] Speaker B: See, stay a distance because you feel threatened. Yeah, yeah. But don't leave him there. Or video. [00:09:48] Speaker A: And that was hard because I, you know, this. This will probably be hard for you to hear, but when you tried to kill yourself that day I came, I walked up on you, me and my mom did. And you had the gun. And I really thought that I could talk you down. I don't know if I could have. I don't know. You know, you were pretty determined, but I just kept thinking, if I can get closer to him and just kind of calm you down and let you know, like, you weren't being threatened. You were okay. But I think at that point, you had already snapped. [00:10:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I had. [00:10:21] Speaker A: You don't even remember that? [00:10:23] Speaker B: I don't remember anything, really. Just flashes. [00:10:24] Speaker A: You don't remember talking to me and me coming up there. [00:10:28] Speaker B: It all kind of gets dark. I got pulled up in there. [00:10:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was a lot, but. [00:10:34] Speaker B: Okay, so we have done both. We have done coaching. We have the marriage counseling. The one thing I will say about counseling that people probably need to know and they don't do it, is it focuses on healing the past. It's not for the present. Okay. In my mind, healing the past means it gets to the root cause. [00:10:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Which is super important. [00:10:58] Speaker B: It is super important because you don't pull out the root, the weeds just gonna grow right back again. So you've gotta either spray pesticide on it or you've gotta pull it out. And look, guys, I know that a lot of us are macho, and we. [00:11:12] Speaker A: Think that you don't have any issues. [00:11:14] Speaker B: We don't have any issues. You know, this is all my old lady's fault. First off, don't ever call her your old lady. [00:11:19] Speaker A: That is very disrespectful. [00:11:21] Speaker B: I think that I would be sleeping in the guest room if I called you my old lady in public. But I think that. I think that it's normal to be. To have a certain type of confidence as a man. I mean, that's what we're supposed to be. We're supposed to be brave, supposed to be strong. We're supposed to be the protectors. But marriage counseling also makes you very vulnerable. And that's a hard thing that men have. [00:11:51] Speaker A: Why? There's such an aversion to it with men. They don't want to go. They're like, I don't have any problem. [00:11:55] Speaker B: Right. But it's very important to find someone who is licensed, who has training to address the trauma. [00:12:02] Speaker A: Okay. Now. So, yeah, I mean, I can see that with somebody who has legit PTSD and they've been diagnosed and the severity of it. I can see that. Yeah, I do. And this is where maybe a little bit disagree or differ with you. Maybe don't really disagree. I just think that I've seen such tremendous healing and growth through spiritual counseling with people. Whether I was getting spiritual counseling or I was giving spiritual counseling, because here's why. Because the Holy Spirit in it now. Okay. A lot of secular counselors who are not Christians. The Holy Spirit is not involved in that conversation. [00:12:38] Speaker B: Well, they've got to stay agnostic in their practice because they can't go either way. God forbid you offend. [00:12:45] Speaker A: No, but can't you find a Christian counselor? Because there are Christian counselors. [00:12:50] Speaker B: Yeah, you can. How many men do you know they're gonna want to call, hey, are you a Christian counselor? Men don't do that. [00:12:55] Speaker A: That's the one. Sad to me, that is such a. I really wish the stigma of getting counseling would just die. [00:13:03] Speaker B: Well, you know, especially a man is taught that rag, his knuckles will be locked up. [00:13:07] Speaker A: Right? [00:13:07] Speaker B: Well, most men are. There are some men out there that don't even know what that means. But, you know, we're taught to carry the weight. If somebody asks us if something's wrong, you say, I'm fine. Do you think that is a woman? [00:13:20] Speaker A: Well, do you think the church in general perpetuates the idea that men shouldn't get counseling? [00:13:26] Speaker B: Well, our situation, we asked for help. [00:13:29] Speaker A: From two or three different churches. Well, yeah, so let me back up. Not going to knock any churches. I'm just going to say that when this happened, we were going to a specific church and I talked to the pastor, it was a big church. And I said, do you guys have any counselors? No, we don't, but we can recommend some. And I'm thinking, has the church gotten so scared to. Are they afraid they're going to get sued? Are they afraid? Do you know, like, honestly, the most help I've ever gotten has been through spiritual counseling. And it broke my heart. And then we went somewhere else and, and actually the meeting we had with that one was really good, but there was no follow through and we weren't able to get counseling that we needed that we asked for the spirit. And I'm realizing how badly people need spiritual counseling. [00:14:21] Speaker B: Right. I agree with you. [00:14:23] Speaker A: Because I mean, what do you think about, like the root of most people's issues? Do you think it's spiritual at the core or do you think it. [00:14:36] Speaker B: I think that Christianity in its purest essence gives you a firm foundation for right and wrong. And I think that if you don't have that foundation, and I'm not saying that there's bad, not everybody who's not a Christian is a bad person. Because I've known some people who weren't Christians that were good people. But I think that Christianity gives you a firm foundation that if you don't have that firm foundation, lean on Then you kind of just go wherever. [00:15:04] Speaker A: Well, I also think, yes, there's that, but I think there is. Like, apart from God, we don't really have a moral compass. That's true. Apart from God, we have an empty void inside of us. And I feel like so many things that people end up doing, whether most of it's falling into addiction or falling into bad thinking habits or falling into whatever, it's because they don't have this relationship with God that they keep looking for, and they're looking for it in wrong places. So that's why I say I think so much of it's spiritual. Because let's even look back with you. We've talked about this in other episodes. Had you had that really strong foundation even though you were neglected as a child, possibly you wouldn't have went down that road. Had you experience God's love and you knew him the way, you know you do now. Right, right. It was like a spiritual problem. [00:16:00] Speaker B: Well, I was taught religion a lot. [00:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah, you were taught religion. And not like. Yeah, not. Not relationship at all. Just. [00:16:08] Speaker B: I was. I never really had any type of firm foundation on relationships because my dad. [00:16:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:13] Speaker B: You know, my mom practically raised us. Right. She's got her own issues. [00:16:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:18] Speaker B: But. Yeah. So growing up like that, when you become an adult, you're like, okay, well, I'm just gonna be like my dad. [00:16:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Because you don't know any different. [00:16:28] Speaker B: You don't know any different. So you don't have that firm foundation to know right and wrong. Because men listen to me. Your kids are watching you with your wife. They're watching you with your. Your significant other. And they're taking notes. Whether they admit it or not, whether they are, you know, whether they're in the room or whether they're in the other room. And they hear you talk to your spouse, they are taking notes. And the way that you treat your wife is the example that they're going to have when they get older. And then they're gonna be like, I'm gonna be just like my dad. I'm gonna do it the way I want to do it. Well, today's women are not cool with that. I'm just gonna tell you right now, it's a lot different than the 50s. And women now have a voice they can stand up on their own. They have a firm foundation without us. So I think that it's very, very, very important for man to look at. Instead of looking at it as just your wife. You're my partner. Everything. Our businesses are like this. They're all tied together. Yeah. [00:17:29] Speaker A: I mean. Yeah. And I think in the south, there's still a lot of that. [00:17:32] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:17:33] Speaker A: Kind of like. Like my old lady, she does what I told her to do. She just needs to go in there cooking clean, you know, and. And I get it. Obviously, that's not a godly Christian perspective, you know, because, like, there may be seasons of your marriage and your life where maybe the wife is more the supportive person with the finances because, you know, maybe the husband's finishing college, or maybe it was like what you need. You needed a. You had to heal, so you couldn't really work. So, you know, that kind of stuff, those kind of stereotype things in the south have to die, you know. [00:18:06] Speaker B: Well, the south will rise again. That's what everybody believes now. I was born in Vicksburg, Mississippi, the very, very heart Civil War. So I think that was the last great battle, wasn't it? [00:18:17] Speaker A: Well, I don't disagree with everything Southern, but I do disagree with some of that. [00:18:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:23] Speaker A: Toxic masculinity. [00:18:25] Speaker B: You know, women in the Deep south were. I'm not saying they were viewed as property, but they were viewed not heard very often. [00:18:33] Speaker A: A lot of times they weren't educated. [00:18:35] Speaker B: A lot of times they weren't educated. Men were educated, but the women, a lot of times they were. They were expected to do just a couple of things. Cook or clean, have babies, and that was it. And the more babies, the better, because you had to work the farm. [00:18:47] Speaker A: And that's the old. You know, that's the way the old world was. I mean, that didn't change until, honestly, I would say, like, What, World War II? [00:18:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:57] Speaker A: Because women started having to work and that kind of created a revolution, you know, but get off topic. Anyways. Okay, so we just want to say. Also because this has really bothered me when I look back, because when I have the opportunity to speak, sometimes I share, you know, in churches, I share. At women's conferences, I tell a little bit of our story. And what really breaks my heart is how so many women come up to me and they say, that's my story, too. But I don't have anybody to talk to. [00:19:27] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:19:28] Speaker A: I'm so ashamed. If everybody in the church knew, they would, like, pick us out. And I'm thinking, are you kidding? The church is for the sick. Jesus came. I didn't come for the well people. I came for the sick. [00:19:40] Speaker B: You know, the church is from the feel good message. [00:19:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So it makes. Well, it just bothers me that, like, where do people go? I mean, if we can't create a safe space and place for people to come, which I think is why God's called you and I into this, because we're. What are you doing? [00:19:56] Speaker B: Oh, my mic just fell. I'm just gonna hold it by hand. [00:20:00] Speaker A: I think God called us into this because we are okay with it being messy with people. You know, it's going to be messy. It's going to be ugly. When you get into people's problems and you start hearing what they go through in their marriage, your jaw can hit the ground, but at the same time, you're like, you know what? I'm not afraid of this, and I'm not going to condemn you. You would be shocked at how many people, one or the other in the marriage. Is trapped in pornography. One or the other is trapped in some kind of addiction they can't get out of. I mean, swingers and stuff like that. I mean, there's all kinds of stuff that I hear when I'm talking to people that I'm like, it's in every town. It's going on everywhere. And how many people tell me that it's not just like one person. Like, it. It's all over the place in. In. I mean, I've watched one time, I watched it a Dateline episode, and the. It was so sad because the whole story was this girl who was a great, wonderful little Christian girl married this guy, and he was a Christian, too. And then all of a sudden, he just got hooked up into, like, this pornography world. Then he talked her into having this swinging lifestyle, and they all started sleeping together with all these other couples. Well, then she, you know, one of the guys that. That was in part of this kind of talk got into her head, talked her out of just like, hey, he convinced her that God was speaking to him. And he was saying, we're supposed to be together. And she was like, yeah, we're supposed to be together. Well, then he murdered the husband. [00:21:27] Speaker B: He did. [00:21:28] Speaker A: I mean, that's the kind of crap that happens. Usually doesn't go that far. Right. But you'd be surprised how many Christians. And I know people personally, that somebody in the church, you know, like the music person, had an affair with a congregant, and they had justified it in their mind. [00:21:48] Speaker B: Well, I think that that's the father of all lies doing that. I think that that's the enemy saying, you know what? This is why this is happening. It's justification. Your wife doesn't appreciate you. [00:21:59] Speaker A: She doesn't respect you. Exactly. [00:22:00] Speaker B: But you know what? You can make yourself feel good by having an affair with this woman over here who is just. She has thoughts for you, man. I can see it in her eyes. Whenever you walk into the room, and before you even know it, it's happening. [00:22:15] Speaker A: But also. Yeah, but could it be prevented if, like, if the church was ready and willing to help people's marriage in crisis, like, before it got to that point, could the worship pastor who was having problems in his marriage actually go and get counseling and not be condemned? [00:22:36] Speaker B: No. [00:22:36] Speaker A: No. Exactly. [00:22:37] Speaker B: Yep. They can't do it. They can't have problems because the church has put this stigma on infidelity and as. Okay, I didn't say that. Right? No, the church has put a stigma on marital problems because if you're going to church, you've got to put on this image of, I have problem, a perfect life. I've got a perfect husband. I've got a perfect wife. We never disagree. We are here to serve the Lord. God is our father. [00:22:59] Speaker A: And all of your Facebook posts are like, aren't we amazing? We're so happy. [00:23:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Ours isn't like. But. But, you know, we. We've got to get past the stigma of marital problems because marital problems are very real. They come up every day, you know, and we've got to get past the stigma of marital counseling and marital coaching. [00:23:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And I want to say, like, on that, because now I kind of piggyback and go into marriage coaching, because the kind of marriage coaching that you and I do, we do some. Looking back, it's not that we don't do that well. [00:23:34] Speaker B: Yeah. But it's in a different aspect. [00:23:35] Speaker A: It is. And so we come alongside, and I would say we're kind of good partners with the counselor. Like. Yeah. Get some of this deep stuff dealt with with your counselor. [00:23:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:44] Speaker A: And. But also, there's. There are moments when at some point you have to go, listen, I am sick and tired talking about my childhood. I'm ready to move on. I'm sick and tired of dwelling on our problems. Let's figure out a solution to move forward because. Yeah, you're driving me crazy. I don't know what you're doing, but. [00:24:03] Speaker B: I'd like to have that effect on you, baby. But the mic is just like. [00:24:06] Speaker A: Like, you need to tighten it down there. [00:24:08] Speaker B: Down here? [00:24:08] Speaker A: No, we're here. [00:24:10] Speaker B: Oh. Oh. I didn't know there was one there. Ah, Okay. I can use a saw, but I can't operate a mic. [00:24:15] Speaker A: Yeah. I may have to cut this thing out. Anyway. He's been over there fidgeting for 10 minutes. [00:24:20] Speaker B: I am so sorry. It just fell into my head. What am I supposed to do? [00:24:24] Speaker A: Anyways, See, There we go. Yeah. So what were we saying? Okay, so coaching. So we focus on. We do some looking back with our clients, but we're not gonna stay in the. In the looking back where, you know, I'm constantly blaming you because you do this thing over here and it gets on my nerves, and why would you. Why won't you stop doing it? And we're just focused on the silly things, and we're focused on the past, and we're focused on, well, I cheated on her because she did this. I'm not saying that stuff doesn't matter, but if you keep talking about it for the rest of your life, you're never going to get move forward. [00:25:04] Speaker B: You never are. Because it's an anchor. And that's what happens with a large ship, is that ship has two anchors. It drops it down, and it holds that ship in place. And if you've got some baggage carrying in, carrying from the past, you can't move forward. It's going to hold you down because you just got to build up resentment. So marriage coaching that we do does, like you said, does go a little bit into the past, but we teach you how to pull up that anchor. It's conflict resolution. You know, we're like. We don't have anything in common. You know what? I didn't think that either until we got to. Well, I mean, outdoors. You're not outdoors. [00:25:44] Speaker A: You say that, but I am. I like. Yeah, I just don't like to get bitten by snakes or mosquitoes or. [00:25:51] Speaker B: So once you go through the course or you go through a marriage counselor, then you realize, you know what? We got a lot in common. You know, we've got a lot of, you know, and one good thing to help you and I is we're good communicators. [00:26:04] Speaker A: Are we? [00:26:05] Speaker B: I think we are. [00:26:07] Speaker A: We try. [00:26:09] Speaker B: Not always that way, but I think most people. [00:26:13] Speaker A: If you could describe the marriage reboot experience, what would you say was the biggest takeaway for you? Like the good part? [00:26:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I think it taught me. I think it taught me that as a man. Gosh, I don't know how to word this. Okay, you go first, and then I'll go after you. [00:26:37] Speaker A: Yeah. I think the marriage reboot really opened my eyes to what kind of life do we want to build and how do we build it and more so how. Let's discern God's purpose for our marriage because we want to at the end of our life, at the end of our marriage, we want to say, man, we accomplished the things that God had for us to do. Right. So in order to do that, we had to get on the same page. But what is the page if you don't even know what God's purpose and you don't have a discernment and you guys don't have an agreement about what that looks like? Because, honestly, even now, we're moving into that purpose. Some of the things that we talked about was you building the business that you're building. We talked about as part of the marriage purpose. We talked about me continuing to grow my business. We talked about certain elements in parts of our lives that we're still working on, like some of the fitness and eating stuff we're not doing. [00:27:33] Speaker B: Well, we did that today, but we. [00:27:34] Speaker A: Were trying to build this map. Not like, legalistically, and we have to stick to the map. But I mean, we were saying, okay, we are like, we're all over the place. What are we doing here? [00:27:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:27:46] Speaker A: So that's what, for me, what it did. [00:27:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it taught me that. That you're not the enemy. It taught me that. That you thought I was your enemy. No, no, no, no. But. But it taught me that it's okay to come talk. You'll be vulnerable. [00:27:58] Speaker A: Yeah, true. [00:27:59] Speaker B: You know. Oh, gosh, it's so intense. Coaching is such an intense thing. [00:28:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Some of the. Some of the. In the. And I'm not trying to, like, sell the marriage reboot. I just want people to understand, like, how important it is to do this. But. But you know, it has different components, right? [00:28:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:17] Speaker A: Or what do they call? Not modules? I don't know. Anyways, there's different areas of your life, and it's things like finances. It's things like, what are your dreams? There's things like, what are your core beliefs? What are your hobbies and activities? And so what you do is you kind of work through this separately, but also together. And you come together and you start to see a picture of, here's what we have in common, here's how we're different, but here's how our differences help us accomplish God's purpose. And so when you start to get on the same page and you have the same vision, then your differences and your fight, what you are fighting about don't matter anymore. [00:29:01] Speaker B: No, it doesn't. You realize how small they actually are. And then you really do realize that you guys have a lot in common, that you're more compatible Than what you thought. [00:29:09] Speaker A: Yeah, it brings unity. [00:29:11] Speaker B: It really does. [00:29:12] Speaker A: It brings unity in a way that I've never seen before. So I would just highly recommend it. And I also want to say on that note, because a marriage reboot is a. Is an investment of time and money. No doubt. But you know, if there. If you're listening to this and you're like, I don't know that I want to go all in because it's a two day ordeal. Like I said, it's a chunk of money. Right. Well worth it. I think it's one of the best things we've ever done. And the money that we've spent on it takes patience. Yeah. But also we have courses that we can take people through that are gonna be not so in depth, but they're still really good. [00:29:50] Speaker B: Yeah, we feed you, yeah. [00:29:52] Speaker A: Six to 10 weeks of these, of some of these courses. They're six to 10 weeks. And we may do those in, like, group formats. I don't know yet. We haven't decided after the first of the year, but we can take people through the courses. And it's a slower pace, but it's a lot of the same material. It just doesn't go as in depth. But it might be more of a fit for some people. [00:30:11] Speaker B: It might be. It requires dedication. If both parties are not dedicated to it, it's not going to work. And I think counseling and coaching are very, very important and they need to work together. You need to take what you learn from the counseling like, okay, so I used to be a nurse and we'd always get these big wounds, Right. So counseling is more like you're packing that wound with honey gauze, or you're packing it with, you know, drainage swab, or packing it and put a big bandage on it. Well, that's more like counseling is that you. Is that you heal the wound to where it's just a tiny little dot. And then coaching comes in. It helps you build new things. [00:31:02] Speaker A: Like physical therapy maybe. [00:31:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:31:06] Speaker A: After the. Like, well, physical therapy. So, like. No, like, after the counseling is like the wound healing. But like, let's say you had to have a surgery to fix. Like, your shoulder was messed up, Right. So you had surgery, but then you have to go through physical therapy after the surgery. And I feel like coaching is like that because what it does is it teaches you how to move forward with this new way of whatever it is that happened. [00:31:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Counseling kind of like removes the effect of the wound. And then coaching helps to build the muscle up. It helps the muscle Work with other muscles. It builds. Unit is what it does. It teaches you that, hey, a tree with strong root is better than an oak tree that has wide, spreading roots. The pine tree's root as tall as the tree is tall. [00:31:56] Speaker A: Really. So, yeah, that's my least favorite tree, but okay. [00:32:00] Speaker B: It ain't coming down everywhere. [00:32:03] Speaker A: Everywhere. [00:32:03] Speaker B: Yeah, our yard's full of them all over East Texas. [00:32:06] Speaker A: So that's a good analogy. I think, too, for people to understand that you probably. If depending on where your marriage is, okay. Like, if you're in crisis mode, you might need to jump into some counseling, you know, and get some of that. Just like you said, the wounds. Oftentimes when you're in a situation like what we were in, the wounds were so deep, and there was so much grief that we were both walking through. There was the grief in my heart, but there was a grief in your heart because you had done the things. But then there was also you trying to figure out why in the heck did you do them in the first place. You know, really coming to the terms with what you had been through. And you're still going through a lot of that counseling with what had happened in the military, but also, like, your childhood. How did that play into the addiction? [00:32:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:54] Speaker A: Trying to get the bottom of that. Because, like, you do need to know that. [00:32:58] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:59] Speaker A: But you don't need to stay there. [00:33:00] Speaker B: You don't need to stay there. Well, with instance, the post traumatic stress disorder, it's always there. But you learn different ways. You learn different ways of coping with. You recognize triggers like, you know, me like an encyclopedia. You can tell when I'm having a moment. [00:33:16] Speaker A: And today you had to use your calm. [00:33:18] Speaker B: I go, oh, man, that was rough. Oh, I. Yeah. Okay, so I'm not affiliated with calm. I go, I'm not an endorser. [00:33:25] Speaker A: Oh, at the end call, my go is, they don't know. [00:33:27] Speaker B: Okay. Calm. I go, is this inhaler? Basically what it is, the breathing technique. And it's almost like pursed mouth breathing. [00:33:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:36] Speaker B: And what you do is this little thing. It looks like. What do they call this inhaler. It looks like an inhaler. And it comes scented. You can get different little attachments to it. Lavender. There's one like cinnamon, you know, and then there's another. I can't remember what the other one was. But you put that little attachment on there, and you turn it on, and you just breathe in through your nose. Really, really deep, as deep as you can. And then when you start breathing out, you breathe out through this Little machine. And what this machine does is it's got three lights on it, and it goes ding, ding, ding. And a real long buzz at the end of the third light. And that tells you to inhale. Your exhale is done. And what that calm I go does is it focuses your attention on your breathing. It helps you reset your vagal nerve. The fight or flight response. It helps you reset that. It helps your brain say, okay, I'm safe. Okay, I'm fine. Nothing is wrong right now. Everything is okay. I'm in a good spot. Nobody's going to hurt. I use it. And I'm gonna tell you guys, I love it. You know, like I said, we're not affiliated with them. We're not getting anything for this. [00:34:44] Speaker A: Yeah. It was actually something. The va. Yeah, the VA paid for it. [00:34:47] Speaker B: The VA paid for it for me. Now I've got a great team. You know, I don't know how everybody else's experience is with their team leader in the va, but my team leader has been nothing but sex for us. [00:34:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And if you don't have a good one that you'd like, you can fire. [00:35:01] Speaker B: And get another one, man. Yeah. You go to a different team. You know, teams are never full quote, unquote. They're just. You can tell who has the best because it has more people in it. [00:35:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:11] Speaker B: So, yeah, definitely. If you're having anybody for any type of anxiety disorder, you know, the calm is C, A, L, M, I, G, O. And it is well worth it. I carry it in my truck with me on my way to work, on the way to job sites, and that's. [00:35:31] Speaker A: The kind of stuff that counseling has taught you. That's why it is important, especially, I think, with people who have an official, true diagnosis where. Where it's physiological. Okay. So, like your brain, people with ptsd, your brain doesn't work like mine. [00:35:48] Speaker B: It's been completely rewired. [00:35:50] Speaker A: It's been rewired. So blown away when I heard, you know, short of God healing you, you have to do things differently than I do. Although I do think I have ptsd. [00:35:59] Speaker B: Well, we both do. [00:36:00] Speaker A: A level of you. I think with you, though, you've learned in counseling to recognize when you're getting out of control and you're spiraling into it and they've given you tools and things like that also. You do. I mean, the medication, obviously. [00:36:18] Speaker B: Well, I think that's where coaching comes in, because you've got to have a partner and coaching and. Okay, so trying to say this the right way. Okay. So coaching is going to teach you to be a team, because the coach teaches. A coach trains a team to accomplish a goal, whether it's football, basketball, soccer, or hockey. It teaches you to get to the end goal, the end zone, home run, you know, goal in, hole in one, whatever. So that's what a coach is going to do. And then that couple is going to take what that coach teaches them and they're going to put it into practice. [00:36:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:57] Speaker B: And that coach is going to tell you, okay, here's the triggers that are going to affect him, and here's the triggers that you do that affect her, and then you work on it together. And. And that. And that. So in that way, there, I think coaching. [00:37:12] Speaker A: But you got to be healthy to. [00:37:13] Speaker B: Do why you had to go through. [00:37:15] Speaker A: Counseling because if you had a broken leg, you can't go play in the football game. Right. You got to get feeling. So. And I think with coaching, a good coach sees the differences in the strengths and weaknesses in each player, and they put them in specific positions because, oh, they're really strong, and they don't try to play them in a place where they're weak. Right. [00:37:33] Speaker B: No. [00:37:34] Speaker A: And I think that's what you have to do in a marriage. So it's like, if I'm really good at this one thing and you're average or you're below average in it or whatever, or vice versa. Like, I'm not going to try to go outside and saw and cut down trees. I can't do it. [00:37:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:48] Speaker A: You know, and you're not going to come in here and try to make soap, you know, or whatever, or write a song or something, you know, like. [00:37:53] Speaker B: I used to do mortgage loans or not gonna make it. [00:37:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that, that. That's the benefit of going through coaching is because you start to recognize, hey, we're not on opposite team. We're on the same team. And you're really good at this one thing. [00:38:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:38:06] Speaker A: So I'm just gonna, like, turn you loose and I'm gonna stop manhandling you in this one area because, like, you're actually really good at it. And I suck. So let me get out of the way. Like, I think you start to realize that you're on the same team, right? [00:38:16] Speaker B: Absolutely. And then when you realize you're on the same team, that you can come up with different plays to accomplish the goal that you want to accomplish. [00:38:22] Speaker A: Oh, how fun. Yeah. New plays. [00:38:26] Speaker B: It's not always fun. [00:38:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So what was that one thing we were listening to, Red? What was that? He was Saying they only had one play and they just ran it the whole game. [00:38:34] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, it was a sweep right. [00:38:35] Speaker A: Sweep right, right. Sweep right. [00:38:38] Speaker B: Is that college or pro? [00:38:40] Speaker A: No, it was that little retrieval into. And he was a coat. He had been a football coach. [00:38:43] Speaker B: He had been a high school football coach. And he. My players were dumb. He said they weren't very smart. He's like, I tried to teach. I tried to teach them the playbook, and they could never get it right. So he said, we came up with this idea to just teach them one play. And he's like, we ran that play the entire game. Sweep right, sweep right. He said the coach on the other side of the field was just raising hands, like, man, what are you doing? [00:39:07] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:39:08] Speaker B: But it was effective because. [00:39:10] Speaker A: And they won the game. [00:39:11] Speaker B: They won the game. And they hadn't won a game in, what, a year or two. They were terrible. [00:39:15] Speaker A: They had lost and they were terrible. And I think that that's so funny because, like, in a marriage, you might not have a lot of plays in your playbook, but the one that you do have, and it's working. Keep doing it. [00:39:26] Speaker B: You know, sweep right, sweep right. Keep sweeping right. You know, forget I was on the left hand side because they're just confused as everybody else is. Right. [00:39:34] Speaker A: Are they going to do that sweep right again? Yeah, they just kept doing it. Yeah. [00:39:38] Speaker B: So keep sweeping right. And then he said the next week we taught him another play, and he said, by the end of the season, we were a good team and we had like five plays that we could run. [00:39:48] Speaker A: Like, get the one play down. I think in your marriage, get the one play down first. Stop trying to do all these other things. [00:39:54] Speaker B: Well, if you try to do too many things at once, then you're going to be confused. And I think that marriage is. I think marriage is fragile enough without throwing a whole bunch of things at it at one time. So start off with one play. Learn that play. Sweep right, sweep left. You know, that way I do an i3 or do a post out to the left. Do whatever. Do whatever kind of play you want to do. [00:40:18] Speaker A: We just lost all the women. They just quit listening. [00:40:20] Speaker B: They're like, what women out there pretty bald about football? [00:40:24] Speaker A: Sometimes I think they're just looking at the men on the football screen. I'm sorry, I don't. I'm like, do y' all really know what's going on? Are y' all just looking at these men? [00:40:33] Speaker B: I'm not looking at that guy in the white pants. [00:40:34] Speaker A: I'm not looking at him. They are. [00:40:36] Speaker B: That's what I mean. That's what they're saying. [00:40:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:40:39] Speaker B: But. But yeah. So it. Coaching really just teaches you just to act as a team. Like our play right now. [00:40:46] Speaker A: Act as a team. Imagine that. [00:40:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's what marriage is all about. [00:40:50] Speaker A: It is your theme. [00:40:51] Speaker B: Have you ever heard people heard of that before? [00:40:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I never heard. I mean, I've been there where you're just like. Not with you. [00:40:58] Speaker B: You've been there with me, too. [00:40:59] Speaker A: No, no. But I've never seen you as my enemy. You know what I'm saying? And I hate it. I hate it for people when their marriage gets so far and then it gets into contempt, because contempt is hard to reverse. [00:41:09] Speaker B: And I'm going to tell you guys one thing that you should not do, okay? When your wife is talking to you, give her your undivided attention. [00:41:23] Speaker A: You learned that lesson. And you. [00:41:25] Speaker B: I know they did learn that lesson. [00:41:26] Speaker A: You looked me in the eyes while I was talking. I'm like, why are you looking at me in the eyes? [00:41:29] Speaker B: Right, Right. Your cell phone is not important. [00:41:33] Speaker A: Okay, let's tell them what happened. They don't know. [00:41:35] Speaker B: Right? Okay. So this morning we're sitting here and I had to drive to a big city about an hour and a half away. [00:41:40] Speaker A: It's so big. [00:41:41] Speaker B: Shreveport and eye appointment. And I was getting my eyes dilated. So I was on there, you know, I was on the phone and I was scrolling through Facebook and all this other stuff, and I was sending a client of mine, you know, emails and then a text message, and she's talking to me and she stops and she's like, what do you think? [00:41:58] Speaker A: I'm like, this one. I did this four or five times. [00:42:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm like, oh, you know. Yeah, that's good. Lying. Because I ain't heard a word she said. And. And that caused a little bit of a disagreement. So, guys, put your phones down. Men and women. [00:42:12] Speaker A: I know. I do it, too, but I. She does it a lot more than I do. I tell you when. If you start talking to me, I'll say, just. Just a minute. I stop you, because I don't. I try to. If. If. Unless I'm completely zoned out, you know. [00:42:24] Speaker B: Like, see, and that's what happened this morning. I was completely gone. [00:42:27] Speaker A: You are gone. But. [00:42:28] Speaker B: And in my mind, it's like, can't you see that my mind is on Mars right now? I mean, my mind is in a different galaxy. [00:42:34] Speaker A: One time you were staring at. You weren't even looking at your phone. You were staring at some object on it. [00:42:38] Speaker B: I was staring at that stupid diffusion that looks like an egg. [00:42:41] Speaker A: Hello? [00:42:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I was staring at that egg over there, and I'm like. And I don't even know what I was getting out of it. [00:42:46] Speaker A: I don't either. [00:42:47] Speaker B: I didn't get to get to either. [00:42:48] Speaker A: So we had a little bit of a situation this morning. [00:42:50] Speaker B: Oh, it worked it out. [00:42:52] Speaker A: Sort of. And then I noticed that he said before we left, you said, let's stop at Denny's and eat breakfast, my treat, or whatever. So we stopped. And then I was talking to you, and you were looking at me in the eyes like you used to do when we first got together. Like, really? And I'm like, what are you looking at me like that for? I'm like, are you in love with me? Like, a lot right now or something? But it was, like, weird. Like, are you okay? And I'm like, oh, this is. You're trying to fix that thing that happened. [00:43:22] Speaker B: You trained me for 12 hours. Congratulations. But now, tit for tat, right? Tit for tat. It goes both ways. [00:43:30] Speaker A: Yes. I did it to you today, too. I was on my phone trying to answer work emails. [00:43:35] Speaker B: Here's what I love. I love whenever I'm talking to you, like. Yeah, right. Really? Yeah. God, I love this one. [00:43:45] Speaker A: Throw our phones out the door sometimes. I really do. [00:43:48] Speaker B: You know, I wish I could. [00:43:49] Speaker A: You know, it's hard when you. [00:43:51] Speaker B: I keep saying, I'm gonna get a rotary phone or something. [00:43:53] Speaker A: Yeah. When you own your own business and you. You have to keep your phone on you all the time. It can turn into a real problem for your marriage if both of you are doing it, you know? [00:44:01] Speaker B: Well, that's where you got to prioritize things. See, and I'm lucky because my job is outside of the house. [00:44:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:06] Speaker B: So when I leave the job site. My job. [00:44:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:08] Speaker B: I never leave the job site, and I can. And. But you live in your job. You live in your office. And back when I was doing that, it worked because we were both together all the time. [00:44:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:19] Speaker B: But now when I come home, I don't get home to work. [00:44:21] Speaker A: Yeah. It's been a transition because you started back work. So now we are. [00:44:24] Speaker B: Yes, I am working. [00:44:25] Speaker A: Deal with. You know. Okay, how do we manage this? Because this is different than what we had for a year. I got used to you always being here, and then I had to work through the. The feelings of feeling insecure about you being gone or being around a woman or something. You know, I Mean, like, that those are real. And I have to. That's what I was saying earlier. I have to, like, let the Lord, like, on the mind of Christ and put on the helmet of salvation every single day. Because the enemy could really take me for a ride down that road, and then I can turn it into a fight with you. And then you're like, well, I can't even work. I mean, if you're going to be like this, what are we going to. [00:45:00] Speaker B: You know, so we've got a million stories to share. [00:45:03] Speaker A: But you know what brings me back? What brings me back, sugar? Well, that. But the marriage reboot and the things we learned about looking forward. Yeah, that's what brings me back. Because I keep telling myself, you mean you can't drive if you're looking in the rearview mirror all the time, Right? You're going have a wreck. [00:45:20] Speaker B: Yes. [00:45:21] Speaker A: And that's what it's like when you. When you. When your spouse or something traumatic happens, like what happened with us. If you keep looking back at what your spouse did, you're going to have a wreck. [00:45:30] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Right. And the more distracted you are while you're driving, more likelihood you're going to have a wreck. And I'm a very distracted driver sometimes. [00:45:38] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. [00:45:39] Speaker B: Don't. I can turn a complete circle and. [00:45:41] Speaker A: Stare at the back window, and he's not even looking in the. I'm like, you're not even looking at. [00:45:46] Speaker B: The road, but the arm is locked. Kidding. Don't do that. [00:45:49] Speaker A: Anyway. Okay. [00:45:51] Speaker B: But, yeah, Sugar and chocolate. And what did you get today? You got that cream cheese. [00:45:57] Speaker A: I got a brownie with icing on. [00:45:59] Speaker B: It, and I got that turtle brownie. [00:46:00] Speaker A: And you didn't like it? [00:46:01] Speaker B: Both of them. Well, I'm gonna give these guys a solid six. Presentation was beautiful, huh? [00:46:08] Speaker A: That's pretty bad. [00:46:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, okay, let's do an 8. Presentation was really good. Inside of the. Inside the little shell thing. Presentation was good. It was. God, I couldn't wait to get into that turtle brownie. [00:46:18] Speaker A: And then he was like, what this thing is? [00:46:21] Speaker B: Yeah. But maybe it was an anomaly because we had got there close to the end of the day, but I'm gonna recommend it. I'm gonna recognize. [00:46:28] Speaker A: Mine was amazing. [00:46:29] Speaker B: So, yeah. [00:46:30] Speaker A: Okay, y'. [00:46:30] Speaker B: All. It's called My Sweet Addiction. It is in Carthage, Texas, and not by. They make. They make wedding cakes, birthday cakes. Now, Shannon's mom also makes beautiful cake of any occasion. And hers. [00:46:45] Speaker A: If you need a wedding cake, if you need an anniversary cake, you need a birthday cake. [00:46:48] Speaker B: If you need a breakup cake. [00:46:51] Speaker A: We lost every listener we ever had at this point. So, okay, listen, here's what you can take away from today. Here's a question that you can ask. Questions you can ask yourself, like to figure out if you need counseling or if you need coaching or if you need both. So do we need to heal something from the past? If you say yes, then you need counseling. Probably. Are we ready to grow into something new? Then you're going to think coaching probably sweep, right? [00:47:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. And both of them require humility and intentionality. Both of them are going to require focus on both parties. I'm going to tell you guys that the coaching that we went through and that we're now certified to do with the coach that we went through the last day. You are done. [00:47:35] Speaker A: I had a meltdown the last time. [00:47:36] Speaker B: There was, like, 12 pieces of paper on the. On the wall. You know, it did look like a high school football room because there's different lines everywhere, and I'm like, good God. [00:47:48] Speaker A: Like, this is our life. It's all on the wall. [00:47:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I kind of melted down on Saturday because I didn't really want to go on Saturday. [00:47:53] Speaker A: I think you melted down on Friday, and I melted down on Saturday because you were like, janice, stop. You're being mean. I'm like, I'm not being mean. I'm ready to go. [00:48:02] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. And then Sunday. And then Sunday, we were just. We were just beat down to the point where we were just like, okay, this is our life. [00:48:09] Speaker A: Nobody's gonna want to come to the marriage reboot. [00:48:11] Speaker B: Nobody's gonna save us. We're here. [00:48:12] Speaker A: No, nobody wants to come to our marriage, re y'. All. It's amazing. Okay? It really is. [00:48:17] Speaker B: You know what? I really. I do recommend it, and not just because we're the ones that do it, but I do recommend it, you know, and there are several coaches in Texas that. That do it. There's one in Houston. There's one in the city close to us. But, you know, we're just all. We're awesome. You know, we don't walk on water, but we don't sink very far. How about that? [00:48:36] Speaker A: But anyway, we listen to the Lord more humble. We know that without him, we wouldn't be absolutely. [00:48:42] Speaker B: Without the Lord and savior Jesus Christ in our life, we would not. [00:48:46] Speaker A: But, hey, some good. Something good we did last week was we finally got our website up for the marriage author. So if you go to shannonwilliams.com and you just click on at the top, there's A link that says the marriage offer. You can go there. And that's our page, and that's where you can see more information about this. You can also see more information about any of our courses that we can take through. And you can also schedule, like, a time. Talk to us to see which, you know, which way should we take you? If you. If you want to go with us and go through these processes, you can schedule a time with us, and we can talk to you about it. And so, I mean, we're super excited about it. We have been so busy with. With our businesses, but we still feel the Lord saying, yeah, hey, you need. This is. This is my calling on your life. [00:49:35] Speaker B: You know, and don't let the enemy get in your head, because he's been in my head ever since I started doing this stuff. Like, do you really have the time? You really want to do this? You want to have strangers in your house? And I'm like, no, I don't want to have that. [00:49:45] Speaker A: No, I know. I'm. I'm like that, too, because I'm. I'm a very private person, and I'm not. What. I don't have, like, that gift of hospitality. So I always get, like, worried that they'll have a horrible time here, you know, like, I'll forget to, like, I don't know, do something important, like feed them or something, you know? [00:50:04] Speaker B: Well, I'm going to close with this tag, and it says, whether you're healing from your past or building toward your purpose and your future, your marriage still has a mission. And. [00:50:15] Speaker A: And let's rebuild it at the altar. [00:50:17] Speaker B: At the altar. You know, there's a reason why God. There's a reason why God told Abraham, sacrifice Isaac at an altar. There's a reason why there's altars all throughout the Old Testament. It's because that's where you lay your sacrifice. And you've got to sacrifice your humility. Well, you got to sacrifice your stubbornness, Sacrifice your flesh at the altar. And I guarantee you guys, once you're there, once you have let God break you down, where you have nothing left but in bone and bone, he takes over, and he brings you back in such a beautiful and loving way that you can be that husband, that you can be that wife, but you need to heal the past, and you need to work on the present. And there's two different subjects, or a counselor can't do that, but a coach can help with your present. It can help you with your future, and you can establish those life goals and the commonalities that have. [00:51:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And I would even say. I mean, it just left my brain. I had this thought, and I guess that's perimenopause. It's gone. Like, there's nothing there. [00:51:31] Speaker B: Yeah, we're at the. We're at the Flash. Hot flashes. Now I have flashbacks. She has hot flashes. So we just flash each other all the time. [00:51:43] Speaker A: Be here all night. Anyway, guys, I was gonna say it was along the lines of what you were talking about with, like, you know, coaching versus. Yeah, whatever. Oh, I was gonna say this. Yes. So listen, God wants your marriage to work way more than you do. Like, you know, you come to him in humility, and you bow before him and you say, I'm gonna meet you at the altar, Lord. I'm gonna sacrifice. Because altar is about sacrifice. What you just said, sacrificing of your time. Sacrificing of. Well, my gosh, just surrendering and laying your pride down. Right? Coming to the Lord saying, I need your help, you know, is huge. And he will meet you there, and he wants us to work this for your marriage. [00:52:29] Speaker B: Right? Like, what would you rather do? Would you rather go out and get that big buck? I know it's deer season, fellas. I know I'm not a hunter anymore. [00:52:35] Speaker A: There's some women that hunt, too. [00:52:37] Speaker B: Yeah, men and women. I know there's big buck out there calling your name. I'm not a hunter. Shannon's not a hunter. I'm not a hunter anymore. But what's more important, getting that big buck or saving your marriage and becoming one with your partner? And I'm hearing the people say right now, man, that's a tough call, you know? But that's where this. That's where the altar comes in. That's where the sacrifice comes in. You can sacrifice a week. You sacrifice six weeks, once a week to come and save your future because you're gonna eat that deer in a couple of years. You put in the deep freeze. But your marriage is forever, and you guys need to work on that, too. [00:53:16] Speaker A: Yeah, that's really good. [00:53:17] Speaker B: That was pretty good. [00:53:18] Speaker A: I'm pretty impressed, you know, And I've never sacrificed for what I felt like God was telling me to do and him not bless me. [00:53:24] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:53:25] Speaker A: I never. I can't ever remember time, man. [00:53:27] Speaker B: We prayed for a year before we hit this place of, you know. [00:53:34] Speaker A: Well, and I think about the sacrifice of you going to the marriage reboot was a sacrifice. You didn't want to do it. You were terrified. You going, we. I kind of twisted your arm and Talked you into going to that prophetic retreat. You were like, I did not. But it was so good. And God blessed us. So you got so much word. [00:53:51] Speaker B: I did everything I could to ruin that first day. [00:53:54] Speaker A: You did. Your flesh was man, your flesh was fighting. [00:53:57] Speaker B: Yeah. But it was worth it. And if you want to, and if you want any more information on that, the person who does that, Rebecca Friedlander, she is a international artist. [00:54:07] Speaker A: She's amazing. [00:54:08] Speaker B: She's an artist. And she also has a little chapel on her property and that's where she does these retreats. And she's got a six week coming up. No, I'm not. Not six weeks. Ten day. Yeah, she's got ten day coming up that Shannon's gonna go. So I got 10 days of fishing and. Just kidding. [00:54:27] Speaker A: It is so amazing. I cannot tell you any. Anytime you can separate yourself from the world and just get along with the Lord, whether that be with your spouse or just you alone, you are never going to come back. [00:54:41] Speaker B: You won't. [00:54:42] Speaker A: Unchanged. You're going to come back changed and better. [00:54:45] Speaker B: If you're Baptist, it's spirit filled. There was a lot of people. [00:54:49] Speaker A: You need to come on over to our side. [00:54:50] Speaker B: Come on over to our side. We're the good side. We're fine. But really, as long as you're in church, that's good. But there's a lot of tongues flying around. I spoke in tongues half the time I was there and I just started doing it. [00:55:02] Speaker A: I'm like, we lost the other one listener we had. [00:55:07] Speaker B: All right, all you three listeners out there, I probably offended you in one way or the other today. But you know what? [00:55:12] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:55:13] Speaker B: It's okay. [00:55:14] Speaker A: We're not very professional. [00:55:16] Speaker B: Okay. Anyway, it's been a fun episode, though. You know, I think this. [00:55:21] Speaker A: The realness. We are real. [00:55:22] Speaker B: We are. We are real. My grandson says that you're not real. You're not real. [00:55:28] Speaker A: Okay. [00:55:29] Speaker B: Anyway. Okay, I'm gonna shut up, guys. And look, God loves you. We love you. All three people listening. God's got your back. [00:55:37] Speaker A: He wants your marriage to work. [00:55:38] Speaker B: And if you want any more information on anything that we've talked about, contact. [00:55:41] Speaker A: Shannon shannawilliams.com you can email me@shanna williams.com. [00:55:46] Speaker B: And she is more knowledgeable about it than I am. I'm just along for the ride. [00:55:49] Speaker A: Yes, that's right. [00:55:51] Speaker B: We love you guys. Have a blessed day. [00:55:52] Speaker A: All right, see you. [00:55:53] Speaker B: Bye.