You're Not Fighting About What You're Fighting About!

[00:00:15] Speaker A: Catch us the little foxes they're feasting on our own. [00:00:24] Speaker B: They'Re cruel and welcome back for another Good Morning America. [00:00:36] Speaker A: You've been waiting to do that. [00:00:37] Speaker B: Oh, you know, Robin Williams popped in my mind. He did this show, something about Vietnam. He said, good morning, Vietnam. [00:00:43] Speaker A: I remember that. I think it was called Good Morning Vietnam. [00:00:45] Speaker B: Maybe it was. I just kind of put my little twist on there because he and I both acted sometimes. [00:00:51] Speaker A: Nice. Okay, well, here we are. And a couple weeks later, and it's almost Christmas. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Almost happy. Ho, ho, ho, guys. [00:01:00] Speaker A: Yeah. I may have to put some kind of little Christmas sound in there. [00:01:02] Speaker B: Yeah. I could sing White Christmas for you if you want to. But we might lose. [00:01:08] Speaker A: We could do a duet. [00:01:09] Speaker B: We might lose the one listener that we have. [00:01:14] Speaker A: Yeah. So here we are. And, you know, it's always kind of fun trying to figure out what we should talk about, but, man, you know, there's just so many couples that I see that argue and bicker and fight, and that's such a big deal. And I just thought we would do. We could do an episode and call it. You're not fighting about what you're fighting about. [00:01:40] Speaker B: How to say that it's just a conduit to express your feelings over one thing that somebody does that drives you crazy. [00:01:47] Speaker A: Yeah. But what's interesting is. I mean, that is true. But what's interesting is sometimes you don't even know why you're triggered by something they did or said. And so there's this underlying reason that you're getting mad and you guys are having the fight, but you don't even realize. Realize it. You're just too busy blaming the other person, and that's all their fault. [00:02:04] Speaker B: Yep. Absolutely. [00:02:05] Speaker A: And I think if you really want to turn your marriage around or save it, you have to learn how to look inside and figure out what in the heck is going on with you and what. What are you doing to contribute to the situation or what is the real underlying need that you have? Because really, what we're going to talk about is, you know, if you're not fighting about what you're fighting about, then what are you fighting about? And we're going to talk about some of those roots that, you know are the common roots and the reasons that people fight. And it's things like not being heard, not feeling seen, not feeling safe emotionally, feeling dismissed, feeling disrespected, feeling alone, not feeling appreciated. Those are the real reasons that people fight. [00:02:50] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:02:52] Speaker A: But people don't know that. [00:02:53] Speaker B: Yes. Like the surface, you know, whenever you're lighting a fire with a flint, you always get that one spark. You got this little pile of dried kindling in front of you and spark it. It's a magnesium. You spark it until it catches fire. [00:03:08] Speaker A: It's magnesium. [00:03:09] Speaker B: I think it is. Maybe. I can't remember. [00:03:11] Speaker A: How did you know that? [00:03:12] Speaker B: It's been a long time since I did that. But, yeah, that one little spark, when it hits the nest of kindling, that big ball there, it causes a flame, and that flame just keeps growing. So that little spark can get down to what the root of the matter actually is deep down inside of you. [00:03:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:31] Speaker A: That's a lot of introspective stuff. And I mean, yeah, you could keep on fighting with each other if you want, but honestly, at some point, you're probably going to just end the marriage. Or you can say, okay, I don't want to live like this anymore. I want to fix this. I want to look inside of me. I want to figure out if this. If I have some triggers or some. Some traumatic stuff that's causing me to have unmet needs. [00:03:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:03:57] Speaker A: You know, that kind of thing. [00:03:59] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:04:00] Speaker A: So, I mean, it could sound like you're, you know, you think you're fighting about the dishwasher, but you're not. [00:04:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:04:06] Speaker A: Or you're arguing about money again, which I think is probably, like, one of the biggest things people argue about. [00:04:12] Speaker B: Well, in this day and time right now, and everything so tight. People are so poor. I mean, there's no other way to put it. People are poor right now. I think that it's important to keep a level head about things. Realize that it's not just one person's fault that you're having a hard time financially, but it's just human nature to take it out on each other, you know, like, if you drive, I drop a dish and break it, which I don't do. But if I drop a dish and break it, that's $4 down the drain. We gotta pay for replace that, and we don't have the money, you know, so everything that you do is tied to something deeper. Absolutely. And if it doesn't come to come out, it'll fester. [00:04:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, if you're broke. I was thinking how broke we were last year, and there are no words to Describe how bad. 2020, the last part of 2024, and the majority of 25 up until, I would say, September of the. Even October. It was October when God said, okay, here you go. Now, I'm going to bless y' all financially. [00:05:11] Speaker B: But and he's been doing a good job of it. [00:05:13] Speaker A: It was like. Yeah, I was. I remember saying something to you, like, zero times, zero is zero. We have nothing like we like. [00:05:23] Speaker B: But you know what, though? And God always pulled us through, though. [00:05:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:26] Speaker B: I mean, we made this amount of money, and we owed a larger amount of money, and somehow all the bills are paid. We kept our cars, we kept our house. [00:05:35] Speaker A: Yeah, we should have filed bankruptcy. I mean, that's the truth. I'm a mortgage lender, and I'm telling you, I'm looking at this going. And I even ask you, at what point did we just file bankruptcy? You know, And I just. I just don't. I'm not a big fan of it. I'm a fan of, like, waiting on the Lord, trusting him. And we just kept waiting and trusting and doing what he said. And there were moments where I was like. I wanted to just go, did you just get a job? And I did say that, but I would know in my heart, God was. [00:06:00] Speaker B: Like, no, nobody would harm me. [00:06:03] Speaker A: I'm healing him right now. And it was so hard to, like. And it was so easy, though, to blame each other. I think it was easier for me to blame you, obviously, in this situation and be like, well, you know, we wouldn't be here if you hadn't done what you did. And it was like God would just kind of put his hand over my mouth when I wanted to say something. [00:06:22] Speaker B: Well, you know, I've never been in a position before where God blessed me so much for doing work that I'm doing, but I really feel like now in the past few months that I'm actually where I'm supposed to be. [00:06:34] Speaker A: Yeah, we're in a whole other level now. We're in the. Okay, God's put us in our promised land, and we're overwhelmed by it. [00:06:39] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:06:40] Speaker A: But, you know, I think takes a while to get to that point. And I just want people that are listening to this, like, God does have something better for you, but you guys got to get on the same team with him. And that's why we're talking about fighting. [00:06:55] Speaker B: You know, one of the worst things that you can do as a couple is fight about, yeah, that's the worst thing you can do whenever you're living with someone, sit there and say, you know what? I'm just tired. You got to get out there and you got to do something. I can't do this anymore by myself. [00:07:11] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:07:12] Speaker B: But, yeah. [00:07:14] Speaker A: Yeah, it doesn't fix the problem. And I cannot stress it enough how Much. Even if you're walking through a season like we walk through. And I wanted to blame you for. Oh, well, if you hadn't had the affair or, you know, you hadn't been unfaithful, then we wouldn't be in this situation. And I'd make all of our problems your fault. [00:07:35] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:07:36] Speaker A: And a lot of people do that to their spouses. They're like, well, we are broke because you did this. You have an addiction, you drink, blah, blah, blah, you know, or if it's the wife, you spend all of our money. And that may be true. [00:07:47] Speaker B: Well, you got some packages coming in. I'm just saying. [00:07:50] Speaker A: No, man, I'm keeping Amazon in our mailbox. Yeah. [00:07:53] Speaker B: Jeff Bezos. I think Shay probably bought him a new yacht by now. [00:07:57] Speaker A: Does he own Amazon? [00:07:58] Speaker B: He owns them. [00:07:59] Speaker A: Oh, okay. He's probably the richest person in the world. Yeah. [00:08:02] Speaker B: One of them. [00:08:03] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's not that you're incompatible. I think when you find yourself fighting about these things because your core needs are not being met. [00:08:14] Speaker B: Yeah. There's always one thing that you guys are going to find out that you're not compatible about. It's just, are you going to accept it and agree to disagree on things and move forward? You know? But there are some hidden fights that all marriages have. There's three things of the fight that are hidden that all marriages have. And the first one is, do you see me? It's not about the laundry, not about the banknote. It's not about money. It's not about the kids. It's all about feeling invisible to the person that you're arguing with. And I've been in that situation before to where nobody came to me for anything. You know, nobody came to me and asked my opinion on anything. They always went someone else, and I'm like, I don't have a. Say something. [00:08:59] Speaker A: Wait, wait, wait. Is that. Is that towards me? [00:09:02] Speaker B: No, no, no. It's not towards you at all. She snorted. I love it when she snorted. But, yeah, I mean, especially for a man. A man has to feel like he's noticed. It's not an ego thing. It's more of a. It gets down to our. To our pro magnet, knuckle dragging man who wants to protect his little. [00:09:24] Speaker A: I don't. Yeah, I agree with that. But I. I don't even think that. I guess I wouldn't phrase it that way. I think that's just the way God made men. You know what I'm saying? Like, and that's not something that y' all need to evolve out of, like society teaches. Oh, you need to be more feminine. Oh, no, no. [00:09:41] Speaker B: I'm not saying that at all. I'm Bible. I am all man. [00:09:45] Speaker A: Right. And I think. So what you're saying is men sometimes feel like, you don't see me. You don't appreciate all the things I do. [00:09:51] Speaker B: Well, think about it. Here's what men are in a man's mind. Here's what a man is supposed to do. We're supposed to work. We're supposed to provide. We're supposed to clean up the yard and other things. So, I mean, we're only noticed for the few things that we do, but we're not noticed for the things that we do that are on the list for the things that we do. [00:10:10] Speaker A: I like what? [00:10:11] Speaker B: Well, like, I love to cook. [00:10:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:14] Speaker B: You know, there are some couples out there who just. Okay, fine, you're cooking. I'm not cooking anymore. [00:10:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:19] Speaker B: You know, or the wife leaves her clothes laying all over the bedroom floor. Not you. [00:10:26] Speaker A: I just cleaned up our clothes yesterday. [00:10:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I have a few in there. But, you know, you leave stuff laying around, and then you just go about your day like nothing's happened. [00:10:38] Speaker A: Right. [00:10:39] Speaker B: And the husband's sitting there, and he's like, man, I can't have come over with a house looking like this. So he cleans it up, and she does that. She never acknowledges him or the husband never acknowledges her. It just keeps going in that cycle. And eventually people are gonna feel like, you know what? [00:10:54] Speaker A: This is just gonna. I don't tell you thank you every time that you cook or clean up. I don't think you do tell me either, though, do you? [00:11:03] Speaker B: Yeah, sometimes. [00:11:04] Speaker A: I cleaned up those clothes yesterday. And you didn't say work. [00:11:07] Speaker B: I did not. Here we go. [00:11:11] Speaker A: But I'm not looking for it, though. [00:11:13] Speaker B: I mean, well, we both appreciate each other in different ways, and. And we might not always say thank you for something, but at the same time, we know that we're appreciated right now. [00:11:24] Speaker A: Yeah. If I felt like I was unheard is what we're talking. No, unseen. If I felt like I was unseen, I could see how that would be a problem. And then it becomes instead of, like, you know, you didn't see me put this laundry up for you. I mean, you know, so then I could see how that would escalate into a bitter. Well, you know, right through you, you know, I'm not doing anything else for you, butthole. I mean, just like. [00:11:47] Speaker B: Right. And then number two is the. Do you love me in this fight? It's not about the schedule, about wanting connection or prioritization. So, okay, this is what I'm getting from this topic here, is that you become. It kind of ties into the first one where you become invisible, where, you know, she has her schedule, he has his schedule, like you and I do. You know, my schedule's all over the place, though. But you have to make time for each other. [00:12:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it's about not prioritizing each other. [00:12:18] Speaker B: Yeah, it's about not prioritizing each other. You can't make. Because I'm a workaholic. I'm gonna tell you right now, I love working. I love what I'm doing now. I can stay out there all day and all night. My body won't let me. I mean, I fell off a ladder and I sprained my whole left side or the right side of my body. But I think that you have to make time for each other. You have to go out on dates. You know, intimacy can't be gotten rid of. You can't give up the things that our marriage couple are supposed to be doing. [00:12:48] Speaker A: Yeah, right. I think it's all about being intentional, about showing appreciation, which I'm really bad at. [00:12:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:57] Speaker A: You know, it's like, I just always think that, you know, that don't, you know, I appreciate. You don't have to tell you, right? Yeah, you do. You do have to tell someone you appreciate them. And I think that's just not something I grew up around, you know, not everybody telling everybody thank you all the time. It's not that. It's not that it was wrong, that it's just not something. I think everybody just. We all thought each other knew that we were thankful. So you didn't run around saying, I'm so thankful for every little thing you do, or I see you. I see what you're doing. Because that's really. What you're saying when you say thank you is you're saying, I see what you did. [00:13:29] Speaker B: Right? Absolutely. [00:13:31] Speaker A: I think that's definitely an area all couples could probably work on, is just being more appreciative of the opportunity. Stop focusing on what they don't do, and focus on what they do for you and your family and realize that they don't have to do that. [00:13:48] Speaker B: Well, it's not the fact that that person who your husband or wife or not specifically doing something to get breaks. But after a while, everybody likes a little bit of acknowledgement, you know? And like, it says, do you see me in this? Do you see that? Do you see what I'm putting in? [00:14:06] Speaker A: And it's like, I think you start taking each other for granted. You just. [00:14:09] Speaker B: The longer you marry, the more you do. [00:14:11] Speaker A: You just have this, you know, this expectation. You do this, I do this. And then, you know, the truth is, though, like, that person doesn't have to do that for you. [00:14:20] Speaker B: No, there's such things having to do something. But, you know, you do have a certain responsibility that you have to do things and, you know, like me, security of the house, I take care. I take care of the yard. I take care of the heavy things. You do a lot, you know, and then you take care of more. The financial side of the family, you take care of, like my estimates, you practically wrote that, you know, so you take care of more of the office. [00:14:46] Speaker A: Yeah. The more business type stuff. [00:14:47] Speaker B: The Betty Homemaker stuff. Yes, absolutely. [00:14:50] Speaker A: No, I'm not the busy. I mean, I am the business. You're the one. I mean, I can do some cooking and I do some. But mostly she's better. She says it's just, you enjoy it and I will do it. Because I know that you're. Sometimes you're tired and I'll be like, I threw this crappy meal together. And you're so grateful, right? [00:15:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm sitting there wondering all the time, God, why did you get me in this career field at 54? [00:15:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you're 54. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Thank God. [00:15:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm 48. Yeah. [00:15:17] Speaker B: Yeah. So 54 years old here, I'm in this new career field and it is not for old men. This is not a country for old men. I'm tired all the time, but. But you can't use that as an excuse not to see. [00:15:29] Speaker A: I think everybody's tired all the time. Everybody I see or talk to, they're just all these days how tired they are. [00:15:35] Speaker B: Dude, I know people who have three and four jobs. [00:15:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:38] Speaker B: But you know what? I did see prices go down at Walmart. [00:15:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:42] Speaker B: A gallon milk used to be 298. Now it's a dollar ninety. Let's go down. [00:15:47] Speaker A: And the eggs are cheaper. [00:15:48] Speaker B: Eggs are cheaper. Food is cheaper. Absolutely. I got two Walmart bags full of stuff today, and I didn't spend 50 bucks. Yeah. [00:15:57] Speaker A: So we talked about. So you have. Do you see me? Do you love me? [00:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:02] Speaker A: And then number three, can I trust you with my heart? It's not about the tone. It's. It's about needing emotional safety. And I think what people don't understand is our brain doesn't really know the difference between physical threat and emotional threat. So if you talk to me in a certain way and for me, because I've been bullied and I've been traumatized by things in my life. If you talk, if there's a certain tone and it triggers me and it reminds me of something I went through when I was younger, I instinctively go back to that. That child that I was, that didn't know how to deal with it. That's why I fall apart. So I think a lot of women do that. I think. I'm sure some men do, too. But women are prone to emotional, you know, meltdowns and responses to something that's not a real physical threat. It's just more like, I didn't like the way you said that. [00:16:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:55] Speaker A: And it hurt me. And I don't feel safe. [00:16:57] Speaker B: Right, Absolutely. [00:16:59] Speaker A: And that's the main thing underneath all of this. I don't feel safe. [00:17:02] Speaker B: Yep. I totally agree. You got to have safety in a marriage. And your wife especially has to feel like she can depend on. And when that trust is broken, it takes a while to rebuild. [00:17:20] Speaker A: Oh. [00:17:20] Speaker B: What? [00:17:22] Speaker A: I was just letting you expound if you wanted to. [00:17:25] Speaker B: Well, I mean, anytime a man violates the covenant of marriage or he lies about something significant to his spouse, or if a woman violates the covenant of marriage and lies to her spouse, then that is. That takes a while to rebuild. It really does. It takes some time to get comfortable with each other again, to be able to go back to that couple that you were. Sometimes it can take years. You know. It can. [00:17:50] Speaker A: Yeah. For sure. [00:17:51] Speaker B: Okay, so how to pause and identify the real issue in a marriage framework? Moment. You ask yourself, what hurt me? Just what do I really need from my spouse? What story am I trying to tell myself? [00:18:08] Speaker A: I do. [00:18:08] Speaker B: Is this about the moment or the wound? [00:18:11] Speaker A: It's the narrative that's playing behind. Okay, so you hurt my feelings. But what did I add and make that. I made that into a full blown story. Like, there's a reason you did that. Instead of just being like, well, maybe you just had a bad day. I made it all about me. And this big narrative that I have going on all the time is, this always happens to me. People always do this to me. This is just like that time in 1984 that. That person, you know, whatever. I think that's. [00:18:36] Speaker B: Women have great memory. Men are like, what happened? Are we out of 1984 already? [00:18:41] Speaker A: To be honest, women are more emotionally. It's called emotionally intelligent, usually. And that just means, like, we are more in tune with what we feel usually. [00:18:49] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:49] Speaker A: And some women don't Know how to identify, like, why do I feel this way? Like, what's underneath it? Which is what we're talking about. Like, and I think that's where all of us need to grow in being, like, you know, okay, Lord, why am I feeling like this? Because I'm probably believing a lie. Or this is something we need to talk about and hash out. You know what I mean? [00:19:10] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:19:13] Speaker A: Okay. [00:19:13] Speaker B: And there's things you can gently ask. Spout. [00:19:17] Speaker A: Gently. Gently. [00:19:18] Speaker B: Yep. You want to go? [00:19:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Can I share what's under this? [00:19:24] Speaker B: For me, the underlying reason. [00:19:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, can I tell you why I think this might be bothering me so much? And I do that with you? I don't say it like that, but I'll say, like, I think this is triggering me because xyz. You know, And I think that kind of helps you understand. [00:19:43] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:43] Speaker A: Why in the heck I just had a meltdown, you know? [00:19:45] Speaker B: Yeah. If someone comes up to someone and they just start yelling at them about something, even if they did do it and they're going to admit that they do it, did it, it's still going to cause an argument because that person's going to feel like that. They're going to feel like they're being put in a corner. And if you put a dog in a corner and you keep beating enough, eventually it's going to react. [00:20:02] Speaker A: I learned that about you. You go into defense mode and your whole personality kind of changes. But I had to figure that out by trial and error. And I would be like, why are you getting defensive? Something about that situation probably reminded you of either military combat or, you know, your previous marriage, where it was constantly fighting. It was constant being attacked all the time. [00:20:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:25] Speaker A: So. Right. Or I reacted because I felt blank, not because of the thing that you did or whatever. [00:20:34] Speaker B: That's why I get him. I felt attacked, cornered, disrespected. It's a huge thing for men. [00:20:40] Speaker A: It's a real big deal for men. Yeah. [00:20:41] Speaker B: It's a really huge thing for men, especially if you do it in public. And that's one thing I can say about you, is you have never attacked me in any way. [00:20:48] Speaker A: Once or twice we got petty with each other. Once or twice we both were like, why did we just do that? [00:20:53] Speaker B: Remember, in front of people? [00:20:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And. And then we would leave that. That situation or wherever we were, and the first, the person would go, please don't ever do that to me again. Then I would. I would be like, I don't even remember. Like, I don't even know why I did that to you? It was like this stupid comment or something that didn't even know where it came from. [00:21:12] Speaker B: That's when we were just getting to know each other. [00:21:14] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:21:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember. [00:21:16] Speaker A: Do you remember that time? Do you remember that time that we. This is a classic example of feeling like you're not being seen. Okay. Which was number one. Do you see me? We had just gotten married and we went to my family reunion. It was late and we stopped and ate at Chili's real quick. And this is before I knew you were like obsessed with like college football. I didn't know. I didn't know. You had like a fever pitch thing going on in the background. [00:21:43] Speaker B: Not so much, you know? [00:21:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So we were sitting at Chili's and you were facing the tv and I mean, you just like went into another world and I was just like, hello. Like I would ask you something and you completely ignored me or whatever. And it got. Got to the point where I was getting mad. [00:21:59] Speaker B: Oh, you didn't get mad. You were mad. [00:22:01] Speaker A: I said something. [00:22:01] Speaker B: We argued there at the restaurant. [00:22:03] Speaker A: We argued and then we went to the. Here. I was trying to introduce you to my family. We had known each other like four months, and I'm mad at you. We almost went home. We almost didn't even go over me watching a football game because you ignored. [00:22:18] Speaker B: Me and you felt disrespected. [00:22:19] Speaker A: I felt disrespected. I felt. [00:22:20] Speaker B: And now tell them. Tell that. Tell the audience what you do now. When we sit down in a restaurant, she makes sure I'm facing away from tv. I make sure she does it strategically. Don't think I never noticed. I noticed it. [00:22:32] Speaker A: Well, I'm helping you. [00:22:34] Speaker B: That's right. That helps me out a lot. [00:22:36] Speaker A: Helping you help me, man. [00:22:37] Speaker B: I appreciate that. [00:22:38] Speaker A: Yeah. But even now, here, lately, we've been having this little. We've been getting a little crossways because I've been feeling like you are not paying attention to me when I'm talking to you. And we've had some heated discussions. [00:22:54] Speaker B: Well, now I don't want to give the impression that we yell and scream each other. We have never. Well, once or twice the past few weeks ago, we yelled at each other. Okay, never mind. Just forget I even said anything. [00:23:05] Speaker A: But you know why? It's because of all the stress of. Of the new job and all that you're doing. And yeah, it was over. I think you were tired. You were on your way home and you called me and I don't remember, but we started. I Started screaming at you. [00:23:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm like, dude, I just got off work. I've been working just as hard as you have all week. [00:23:23] Speaker A: I think we were both really tired. Yeah. It was so childish. [00:23:26] Speaker B: We were like, take a pill and take a nap. I didn't tell you that, but that's what I was thinking. Take a pill, man. [00:23:31] Speaker A: Come on. [00:23:32] Speaker B: That wouldn't have gone over well. [00:23:36] Speaker A: So there's those kind of situations where it's obviously just exhaustion, but literally, for me, if I feel like I'm not seen, I will not so nicely say something. You do, too, but you're better than me. Like, I'm always on my phone working, and you don't really get mad. And I know you probably feel like, oh, my gosh, are you just gonna put that stupid phone down? You know? [00:23:58] Speaker B: Well, I know that that's your job, and I know that you're gonna have to talk to men. I know you're gonna have to talk to, you know, like yesterday. [00:24:04] Speaker A: Yesterday? [00:24:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yesterday. This guy, he called her, and he was talking. She's like. He's like, well, where do you live? And she said, I live in Henderson. He's like, oh, that's where we met. And that went all through me. I'm about to come out of my skin, you know? I'm like, okay, he sound like he's getting a little bit sexy on the phone right now. We're gonna have to set some boundaries with this dude real quick. But he's married. He's a happy married man. He's somebody that used to be in your band. [00:24:30] Speaker A: We used to kind of play in the run in the same circles, and I think we played in some group together musically. Just somebody I've known for a long time. You know, he's called me about alone, and you're like, that Persona cute. [00:24:42] Speaker B: Well, it was just. I didn't like his attitude. [00:24:45] Speaker A: It wasn't bad. [00:24:46] Speaker B: His presentation was bad. [00:24:48] Speaker A: But anyway, yeah. So I don't know which one that. That probably fell into. Can I trust you with my heart? Yeah, it did, because you were like, I trust you. [00:24:57] Speaker B: Brawlers, 423. Brawlers, 423. [00:25:01] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I'm just saying, like, you didn't feel safe, so you were. [00:25:04] Speaker B: Like, oh, and I'm not a jealous person. [00:25:08] Speaker A: What. What about that set you off just the way. [00:25:11] Speaker B: Okay. He didn't say, oh, yeah, that's where we met. He's like, that's. [00:25:16] Speaker A: And I'm like, I was here reading. [00:25:17] Speaker B: Between the lines, dude, I will rip out Your tongue, huh? [00:25:20] Speaker A: You're reading between the lines. [00:25:21] Speaker B: I was reading between the lines and I didn't like it at first. I thought it was your, that, you know, guy, the Latino guy text. I'm like, huh, this ain't gonna end well. But you can't wind up being somebody that you knew. He's in a Christian. He's in a Christian circle. So Jesus convicted me. Don't worry. [00:25:41] Speaker A: Okay, well. Okay. So we're talking about how to pause and identify the real issue by asking yourself some of those questions. You know what hurt me just now? What do I really need from my spouse? What story am I telling myself? Is this about the moment or is this about a wound? And I'm going to tell you, it's probably about a wound. [00:26:01] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:26:03] Speaker A: It's like one of those. If you have an ongoing wound in your marriage, then it's probably something that never got resolved between you two. And it just keeps happening and happening and at some point it just becomes an all out explosion, which sucks. You don't want it to get to that point. So you can. So we're talking about, you know, what can you say to your spouse? I think that already I reacted because I felt maybe insecure, not because of a thing or whatever. So. [00:26:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:37] Speaker A: So because what we're trying to do is turn an argument into a connection point and not a collision. We're trying to get on the same page. [00:26:43] Speaker B: Yes. [00:26:43] Speaker A: Okay. So we're trying to really. And it's hard because sometimes you want to be petty and you want to tit for tat. You know, I want to slap you because you slapped me or whatever. [00:26:51] Speaker B: Which never happens. Well, I think that it comes down into what you got to figure out what. Restoration and restoration can have different things. Like I can't approach you because my voice can go from really soft to really, really stern. [00:27:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:09] Speaker B: Without me even thinking. [00:27:10] Speaker A: You can go into military mic mode. And I'm like, who is this? [00:27:14] Speaker B: Who do you think you are, dude? But, you know, I mean, I can jump into that pretty quickly. So you have to replace that. Yet you're playing the sternness, you know, and also sarcasm. I have a mildly sarcastic attitude. Not bad. Okay, I'm lying. I'm sarcastic. [00:27:32] Speaker A: Yeah. That's something I've had to try to crucify. And it's really hard. I don't know why I like these sarcastic. And I know that it's not godly. I know it's not. [00:27:41] Speaker B: It's a defensive mechanism. [00:27:43] Speaker A: Is it? [00:27:43] Speaker B: I think that's what it is. Because I grew up with three other brothers, I was, like, forgotten. [00:27:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:50] Speaker B: So I had to be sarcastic. [00:27:51] Speaker A: But it never solves anything. It makes things worse. When you're constantly sarcastic with your spouse or yourself or under your breath. You may not say it out loud, but you're thinking in your head. [00:28:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:02] Speaker A: You just do like you always do, you know, whatever. [00:28:05] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. [00:28:07] Speaker A: And you're just shooting yourself in the foot when you do that kind of stuff. I mean, God can change anybody. God can change any situation. He really can. I've seen it. [00:28:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:18] Speaker A: And he's done such a work in me to take me from being like negative Nelly all the time to being a person who actually. Actually, most of the time. Maybe you can confirm this. Most. Maybe the Wellbutrin I'm taking, I don't know. But most of the time I'm pretty emotional. Just don't take you to Walmart. [00:28:36] Speaker B: Just don't take you to Walmart. [00:28:37] Speaker A: I do. I have a panic attack. [00:28:38] Speaker B: We don't go to Walmart together. Guys, keep her out of the department. [00:28:42] Speaker A: Or like flying, traveling, any of that. I have a really hard time with it. But I think I'm mostly more positive now than I used to be because I've seen God work too many miracles and it's so much easier and you're so much happier if you will allow the Lord to kind of shift you from being a super negative person all the time. Who wants to live with somebody like that anyway? [00:29:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. But it drains your life force. It just drains you spiritually to be with someone who's negative Betty all the time. [00:29:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Did I do that to you for a long time? [00:29:15] Speaker B: No, not really. Not really. But, you know, understanding replaces assuming. And when I come at you with something that's upset me, if I come at you with a soft. Well, a soft understanding heart that, hey, maybe you misunderstood what I said. [00:29:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:38] Speaker B: Then we can use that. We can sit down together as a partnership. [00:29:42] Speaker A: Let's reason together, like reason together. And I think that's the way that. That's the approach that the Holy Spirit takes with me, is he doesn't. He's not accusatory with me. Actually. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. So if you ever walk in accusation, just know you're not walking after God's heart and you're not walking in step with fellowship with the Lord. When you accuse other people, it's very easy to get into your flesh and do that. So I think when you walk in step with the Holy Spirit or when God corrects us or talks to us. It is a hey, come, let us reason together thing. It's not a I'm gonna beat you down. I'm gonna tell you how stupid you are. I'm gonna be super sarcastic because you're never gonna change, you know, so it's really, to me, like, these kinds of conversations are really, really need to be rooted in your own personal walk with God. Right, right. Because if you're not walking with the Lord and you're not seeking, you're not growing and changing as a Christian, then your marriage is going to reflect that. [00:30:39] Speaker B: Absolutely. Because you've got to have a Christ like life, and you've got to follow that one commandment that Christ put out before he left, before he ascended into heaven. He said, love one another. That's all. I'll leave. That doesn't mean you can judge them because you love them. That doesn't mean that you can be sarcastic towards them. It means you love that person the way they are. And if they're doing things that are difficult to process or understand, then you sit down with each other and you talk about. [00:31:10] Speaker A: Or you pray. You pray for the other person and pray for understanding. I did that with you, and I still do that. I pray to understand, you know, because there are moments where I find myself going back, like, why did this happen? Why did he do this? And I get scared. And I can get into the narrative of the story of, you know, you didn't really love me, that's why you did it. I'm not enough. All that kind of stuff, it tries to creep in, and I just have to keep pulling myself back over into the light where God is. [00:31:39] Speaker B: Well. And, you know, James 1:19 says it really well. It says, be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to becoming. That means you approach that person calmly and you talk about things. Even though you're upset mentally or spiritually, in your heart, your heart is hurt by something that they did. If you come to them with a calm tone, say, hey, man, you know, we can talk about this. This really bothered me. If that person really wants to work it out, they will come at you with the same tone. They will sit down and they will talk. [00:32:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I think about, like, be a diplomat. Yes, absolutely. Instead of an aggressive butthole who's like, you know what? I'm gonna put you in your place, buddy. It's more like, no, I'm a diplomat here, let's negotiate. Let's talk about angelic. It's so hard as a woman. But you have to, like, try to put your feelings aside and listen. I remember. I remember this so clearly. And I don't know how much is appropriate to tell, but one of the last conversations we had where some things had come out about some things that had happened. And I remember I was waiting on you to get back. You're going to talk about it. And I was, like, trying not to panic. I was having a meltdown. But I started breathing, calmed myself down. And you came in and you said, sit down. We need to talk. And I remember sitting there and I was thinking, okay, I could just let him have it. But it was like the Holy Spirit kind of put his hand over my mouth and he was like, listen with understanding. And I even told you this. I said, I'm gonna go outside of myself, and I'm gonna listen to you like a counselor right now. It was so hard because I wanted to respond because I was in so much pain. But I had to go outside of myself because I couldn't add it. I couldn't really see you the way. God, the true story of what was happening, unless I put my feelings aside for a minute and just listened and looked at you as a human being. And I think that's what so many people are missing in their marriage, is that they're just so quick to throw the other person under the bus. I mean, how are you gonna build a house together if all you ever do is beat each other up? [00:33:41] Speaker B: You know, you're not. The house is going to be built on sand. [00:33:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:47] Speaker B: And a house built on sand doesn't stand for long because the weight shifts the sand under it. [00:33:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:52] Speaker B: Eventually your wall start breaking, your signaling starts leaking, and then by the time you realize that you've got to move out because the house. [00:33:59] Speaker A: Well, and let's talk about the real truth about marriage, because this is what everybody needs to hear about marriage. It's not about you being comfortable. Are you having a beautiful life? Which you will have a beautiful life if you listen to God. It's about you learning how to be more Christ. Like, marriage is the number one way that God's going to teach you how to be more Christ. Like, okay, so you're fighting a losing battle when you blame the other person. You're bypassing the very thing God's trying to do, which is, hey, I want you to die to yourself and surrender to me. And I'm going to teach you what real love is, what real sacrifice is, what it really means to look like me. Marriage does that for you. [00:34:39] Speaker B: Absolutely. It does that Most definitely. [00:34:41] Speaker A: And so I think, you know, fighting the other person and blaming them for everything. I'm not saying they don't have some fault. I'm sure they do. You probably do too, you know, but, like, saying, you know what? This is making me more Christ, like, and I'm gonna appreciate this because it does. It's doing that for me. It's doing something in me that I can't do outside of a marriage covenant, you know? [00:35:03] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, the marriage covenant was there. It was placed there for a specific reason. As long as you go by the rules of the marriage covenant, you know, love, honor, obey, respect, then your marriage, your marriage is going to be fine. But we forget about the love covenant. We forget about the marriage covenant. As soon as we say our words, we forget about it. You know, love, honor, and respect each other. That's the four things, the three things that, that can make a successful marriage. [00:35:32] Speaker A: You're not going to be able to do it without the Holy Spirit's influence. Not really. I mean, I've seen some other people do it without God, and I don't know how they do it, but, like, for me, I'm a terrible person without God. I'm selfish, I am jealous, I am mean, I'm petty, I'm sarcastic. But with him, he just kind of roughs out those ugly places, you know what I mean? So I think we need to look at marriage through a different light. And we need to see it as one of the ways that God makes us more like his son. [00:36:04] Speaker B: Well, I think the reason why things are so bad in the world, well, one of the reasons there's a whole bunch of them. But one of the reasons why things are so bad in the world today is because the marriage covenant has suffered a complete breakdown. [00:36:16] Speaker A: Absolutely. The whole family unit's frozen apart. [00:36:18] Speaker B: The whole family unit is falling apart. You've got kids who all they want is their cell phone. You got mothers and fathers who are having to work, too, sometimes three jobs. Just support that family, live in that nice house. [00:36:28] Speaker A: And what I see a lot of is people living together to figure out if they want to get married. Oh, I just hit that nerve with some people, probably. Well, but think about it. That's not the way it works. You don't get to stay with somebody to decide if you're gonna stay with me. [00:36:43] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:43] Speaker A: You make that decision beforehand because you love them. [00:36:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:47] Speaker A: Which means I'm committed to you no matter what. When you cheat and go around the other way, then what you're saying is we may or May not make it. I'm not sure if I really wholeheartedly love you enough. Just like, go ahead and commit. [00:37:00] Speaker B: Right. Well, yeah, I don't know about that. [00:37:04] Speaker A: You don't know? You don't agree with me? [00:37:06] Speaker B: Well, I agree with you, but I'm. [00:37:08] Speaker A: Talking about living together. [00:37:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. We didn't do that. But what I'm thinking that does is it gives you a reason not to get married. [00:37:14] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:37:15] Speaker B: Because you're already with them. [00:37:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. But you just didn't make the commitment. [00:37:18] Speaker B: Right, Right. [00:37:19] Speaker A: You didn't make the covenant. [00:37:20] Speaker B: That seems to be a growing trend these days. [00:37:22] Speaker A: It is. [00:37:23] Speaker B: People just say, we know what? Let's don't get married. [00:37:24] Speaker A: And they never stay together. They never stay together. [00:37:26] Speaker B: That's the reason why they want to get married. Because if I break up, I don't have to give you anything. Yep. That's. [00:37:31] Speaker A: It's a real underhanded, un. Pure way to do it, you know, and to me, it. I hate to say this, but it just. It shows the shallowness of the love. [00:37:40] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:37:41] Speaker A: Or lack thereof. [00:37:42] Speaker B: Absolutely does. [00:37:44] Speaker A: So sorry if that offended our two listeners. Hopefully you're married or you understand what we're saying. And I'm not trying to bring condemnation. I'm just trying to bring awareness that, like, the motive may not be pure or right. You know, because when God's in the middle of it, you know, like, when we get a relationship with God, he doesn't go, hey, let's just do this trial and error thing with each other and decide if we actually want to be, like, you know, in a relationship together. He doesn't do that. When he commits to us. He commits to us and he's faithful to us. And we're supposed to be the same with him. And I think that that's what people are doing with this living together situation, you know, for years or whatever on end. And. And like. But then. But there's no real commitment. So I just. It's not the way it works. [00:38:29] Speaker B: Yep. [00:38:29] Speaker A: And that's why it always falls apart. So. Da, da, da. So. So let's talk about. I love what you said in James 1:19. I love that. And I love Proverbs, Proverbs 4:23. Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows, flows from it. So it's a good idea to really evaluate and maybe really get some help figuring out what's going on in your heart. If you're struggling with constantly fighting with your spouse, you know, maybe you need some help. Maybe need some counseling. [00:39:04] Speaker B: Absolutely. You know, there's a taboo about counseling, especially with men. There's a taboo with it, but most veterans I know go to counseling already. But there's a taboo about it in the civilian world thinking, well, if I go to a counselor, then I'm crazy. That's not true. You've got to have help. And especially in this day and age here where we are such a sterile society and nobody cares about anybody else. [00:39:26] Speaker A: I know, right? [00:39:27] Speaker B: It's just your feelings are hurt. We're going over there. Your feelings over there. I don't care about them. Yeah. You've got to have someone that you can go to, tell your deepest, darkest secret without judgment, for sure. [00:39:41] Speaker A: And if that's a counselor, great. If it's a trusted friend, great. You know, whatever. I just think, you know, some of the stuff. When it came out with you, you were honestly, you felt so much better. You felt lighter. It burdened me because I had no idea. But the release that you had, and, I mean, you'd been carrying that a long time, and it destroyed your health. I mean, we're still trying to recover your body from the years of secrets, and a lot of it were things that you had to keep secret because of the military, so. And you still do, but. [00:40:16] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. [00:40:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:19] Speaker B: Well, secrets turn into a cancer, and like you said, it festers inside of your body until the person that you're hiding the secrets from finds out, because they can smell it. They're like, okay, there's something wrong. [00:40:31] Speaker A: Something ain't right, and we need to. [00:40:32] Speaker B: Talk about what's going on. Absolutely. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So we're gonna wrap up a little early. Stay. I think we're at 40 minutes. But just. Just kind of want to throw this out there. If you're a couple, you and your spouse, you want help uncovering the roots beneath your recurring conflicts. [00:40:49] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:40:49] Speaker A: Our marriage reboot. Intensive walks through this step by step, and, you know. Yeah. [00:40:55] Speaker B: That marriage reboot work. It did wonders for us. [00:40:59] Speaker A: I still think about if the trajectory of our life changed because of that marriage. It did. [00:41:05] Speaker B: Absolutely, it did. [00:41:09] Speaker A: Do you need some coffee? [00:41:10] Speaker B: Oh, man, it's been a long day. [00:41:12] Speaker A: It really did. Because what it did for me, and I'm not saying this just to try to get, you know, a reboot out of this. [00:41:18] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:19] Speaker A: Because honestly, I don't care if you come to us or someone else, whatever. [00:41:22] Speaker B: As long as you go to somebody. [00:41:23] Speaker A: Yeah. But what it did for us was got us on the same page. I think we were on different pages. [00:41:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:29] Speaker A: But until we understood and we could see God's plan for our life in our marriage. Like, okay, why did he bring us together? Well, yeah, we're different, but we're different in some good way, right? Because we could see, like, some of the things we want to do here is. You know, we kept seeing, like. I don't know if we talked about this before, but I had gotten back from a retreat at a friend's house, and I saw that little white chapel. When I drove up onto our property, I could see it in my mind. It was like, heaven's pardon. There was this beautiful white chapel at the back of our property. And I just felt like, I think we need to put a chapel here. [00:42:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. [00:42:08] Speaker A: And I told you. And at first you were like, what? And this is before everything fell apart, but you started getting on board with me, and you were like, I see it, too. And then it became okay. I think not just that, but I think we need to put some more cottages back here. And. Because our heart is that people would come here and encounter God. But, you know, if it's a marriage that needs work and they want to restore that, that they could come here and we could walk them through this marriage reboot intensive or whatever it is that we're doing, or if it's just people who need to get away, need to hear God, you know, and having the chapel out there that we could host things, have studies and stuff like that, and nights of worship and ministry, night, things like that. So we saw that. I think that became really obvious to us because I started looking at, okay, what are your gifts and talents? And you have, like, the ability to build that stuff. But you're like a groundskeeper. You could totally, you know, keep up with all the outside stuff. And then, of course, I'm the teacher, facilitator, worship stuff. You also are very good with, like, cooking and thinking about, like, what would be a good meal? You know, that kind of thing. So anyway, we were just like, oh, gosh, we actually do have, like. Like, we work together. [00:43:26] Speaker B: Well, we do. And that's one thing about us. I mean, from the very beginning that I noticed about you and I, is that we do work extremely well together. As long as I let you be in charge, we're great. [00:43:38] Speaker A: I think we had a fight recently about that, too. I think that was that screaming fight that we had on the phone. [00:43:44] Speaker B: Well, the way you're making it sound, we fight all the time. [00:43:46] Speaker A: No, it was that same one. That same fight where you. I think you said something about that. And Then I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm a control. And that's what you was about. I'm a control freak. And I'm working on it. It's hard, and I need counseling for it anyways. [00:44:03] Speaker B: It's hard to hear that, isn't it? [00:44:05] Speaker A: No. I already knew I was, but I find that it's. It's getting worse because fear keep. You know, if you're a control freak, this is a side note. And you should listen to my other podcast. [00:44:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:18] Speaker A: Because I talk about this kind of stuff, but it means that there's some kind of trauma. There's something in your past that's causing you to want to control everything around you. You're scared. You're afraid. You want safety. So anyway, that's that. So if. If that's something you're interested in, you know, you don't have to stay stuck in the same cycle. Healing is possible. We would love to work with you, whether it be a marriage reboot intensive, or we have courses you can go through with us that are not as intensive and they're stretched out over six, eight weeks or whatever. So that might be a better fit for some people. It also is more affordable as well. [00:44:54] Speaker B: Absolutely. Closing prayer. [00:44:57] Speaker A: Sure, you go. [00:44:58] Speaker B: God, help us see beneath the surface. Reveal a real wound. Give us compassion for each other. Teach us to be for one another and not against another. Restored unity where arguments stole in the. [00:45:13] Speaker A: Man. Teach us to be for one another, not against. You're on the same team. [00:45:17] Speaker B: On the same team. [00:45:18] Speaker A: Pretty good. [00:45:19] Speaker B: You know, I was reading this thing on Facebook the other day, and it says marriage will be the most important investment. And I agree with that. [00:45:27] Speaker A: It could be the best thing or the worst thing it can be. [00:45:30] Speaker B: Choose wisely. [00:45:32] Speaker A: That's right. [00:45:32] Speaker B: Choose wisely. All right, guys, we're going to close this out. Shades used to go out of town for a few hours and I gotta go bake some cookies. [00:45:40] Speaker A: Yeah, Ginger snaps. [00:45:41] Speaker B: Ginger snaps. Anyway, I wish you guys nothing but the most heartfelt Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Yeah, it is not called Holiday. Happy Holiday is stupid. It's Christmas and it's Merry Christmas and. [00:45:55] Speaker A: Hopefully we'll release another episode before the end of the year, but if not, Merry Christmas and we will be back soon. [00:46:02] Speaker B: And be careful when you order something off of Amazon, because they go right what it is on on the box, and your wife's gonna see it. [00:46:10] Speaker A: I already know what all I got. [00:46:11] Speaker B: She knows everything she got already. [00:46:13] Speaker A: It's ridiculous. [00:46:14] Speaker B: All right, all right, guys. Bless y'. All. [00:46:17] Speaker A: Bye. It's stronger than time.