Dealing With Triggers In Your Marriage

[00:00:15] Speaker A: Catch us the little foxes. They're feasting on our own. All right, go. [00:00:26] Speaker B: And we're back. [00:00:28] Speaker A: We're back. [00:00:28] Speaker B: Yep. [00:00:29] Speaker A: Did y' all miss us? [00:00:30] Speaker B: Did you miss us? I. I missed you. Did you miss me? [00:00:33] Speaker A: Oh, we didn't have time to miss each other. We were with each other the whole time. [00:00:36] Speaker B: Where we have been kissed by the Caribbean sun for a few days, took a cruise. It's our first vacation in what. [00:00:45] Speaker A: Oh, by the way, this is 20 years. This is Aunt Shanna and Michael, and this is the marriage Alder podcast, FYI. [00:00:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:52] Speaker A: But, yes, we actually missed two now. We just missed one week, right? [00:00:57] Speaker B: Yes. [00:00:58] Speaker A: Yeah. So we missed an episode last week because we were. It was too hard to try to squeeze one one in before we left and we were gone for six days. So forgive us if you were anxiously waiting on pins and needles and you saw that it didn't drop and you're like, oh, my gosh, how could they? Yeah, that's why. [00:01:16] Speaker B: Absolute, absolute. But you know what, though? We got back, we finally got over the earth not moving under our feet. It took us a couple days for that. But since we have been back, we have had Covid scare. [00:01:32] Speaker A: I'm sure they all wanted to know that. [00:01:34] Speaker B: None of us have Covid. We're good. [00:01:37] Speaker A: Yeah. So we decided. Well, actually, I decided and told you. I think this is a good. Good. [00:01:44] Speaker B: Yeah, we're tanned and sexier than ever. Oh, yeah, we are tan. All right. So where are we going with this today, love? What are we doing? [00:01:55] Speaker A: So, yeah, I had. We were going to talk about, like, health and fitness. You know, we were going to do. And we will do that in another episode, but kind of what was on my heart today? And I just felt like we were on our way to church this morning, and before church, I had another one of those moments that I felt triggered. And it's just, you know, I started thinking there's probably people that listen to it, to this, that. That say things like, oh, well, it sounds to me like. Because if you've listened to every episode by now, you know that we don't talk about the trauma every episode. I mean, we kind of try to mix it up and do like, okay, this time we'll talk about it, but next time we'll talk about, hey, let's talk about how to have a healthy marriage, you know? [00:02:40] Speaker B: Yeah. I think we've kind of make it seem like our marriage is perfect now. [00:02:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:44] Speaker B: Like, we just don't have any issues. But our issues are daily. [00:02:48] Speaker A: Yes. [00:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:48] Speaker A: And that's What I wanted to reiterate and to say is that if you're listening to this and you think, oh, my gosh, well, they went through something horrible and they've got it all together. And I don't. In my own marriage, it's not like that. We struggle then. That's true. And that's, that's, that's us too. But we still, in the midst of it, feel like God has called us to this. And the enemy keeps trying to come in and say, oh, but you know, you guys are still dealing with this part over here, so you don't need to be doing a podcast, you don't need to be coaching people, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're never going to have a perfect. [00:03:23] Speaker B: Never going to have perfect marriage. Especially after you have things happen that we've had happen in our marriage and it opens the door for an enemy, I think that is very, very opportunistic. We're talking about the dark one, Satan himself. Once that door is open, it's almost impossible to close it. You can work through it. You can go around it. You don't have to use that door. But that door is always going to be open. It's always, every once in a while, something's going to come in or try and try to come in and try to mess up the situation. [00:03:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it's really about being mindful and guarding the marriage and guarding yourself and paying attention, for crying out loud. Because I think so much of the time it starts with not paying attention, not being mindful, not guarding the most precious thing God's given you in a relationship, which would be your marriage. [00:04:17] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:04:18] Speaker A: But I thought today we could title this probably what to do when you're triggered in your marriage or something like that, because it's so frustrating. And I'll just say this from my side because I'm the one that gets triggered a lot. I don't think you do, do you? [00:04:40] Speaker B: Something has. I have to have an outside influence to trigger me sometimes. [00:04:43] Speaker A: I do, too. [00:04:44] Speaker B: Diesel fumes, helicopters, 18 wheelers beside me, a car. [00:04:48] Speaker A: But as far as the marriage, as far as our marriage and what happened last year, do you get triggered by anything? I mean, you had a gun in your hand. [00:04:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't like weapons right now. You know, I know we have one in the house. We need that just for safety. But my other firearms are in another location, and I'm pretty fine with them being down there. [00:05:09] Speaker A: But are there songs or movies or moments or locations where you feel. [00:05:17] Speaker B: No, not really. Not really. Anything like that. It's just more of an opportunistic thing. Like I'll be driving down the road, and then all of a sudden, you know, this voice message. You know, what you did was really bad. You know, you really live the whole thing over. You know, you always do. [00:05:31] Speaker A: Well, that's interesting, because you never tell me. [00:05:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:34] Speaker A: You never tell me. And I always think. I'm always thinking about myself and how bad I'm hurting. Yeah, I do think about you. Don't. Don't get me wrong. But I mean, when you go through something like this, it hurts really bad. And. And when I have a moment where something. It could be. It could be a movie. [00:05:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:54] Speaker A: It could be, like, a scene. And this is. You've seen this happen to me where, you know, there's, like. In the movie, somebody's having an affair, and I get so mad. [00:06:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:04] Speaker A: And. Or I'll just be like, I don't want to watch this. I can't watch this. Ticks me off, and it puts me in a bad spot. And then there I am, struggling with thoughts the rest of the day or that night. It could be that. It could be a song. It could be a location. If sometimes it's nothing. Sometimes I'm just minding my own self. [00:06:25] Speaker B: You know, I think that that can happen a lot more whenever you're relaxed, like when you're asleep. [00:06:29] Speaker A: Right. [00:06:30] Speaker B: I think. I think that that's when the majority of the ones you have vocalized have hit you because you're relaxed. You. I mean, you're not doing anything to occupy yourself other than trying to sleep. [00:06:42] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, our counselor says that. Yeah, that's what's happening, is your brain is finally. You're not in control of it. And it's like, by the way, did you think about this other detail? Because mine are stupid. They're just like, well, what about this one detail that I can't seem to just nail down? [00:06:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:00] Speaker A: And then if I ask you, of course that ends up not ever being good, so. [00:07:05] Speaker B: Well, and I need to work on that. It's been a. It's been. I've been a work in progress for over a year now. You know, I know that you need to have a safe place to talk. I do. But the way I respond is. Is at first. You know, the first one we had since we've been home, we were driving back from the ship, and you were asking me questions, and I'm like, where did this come from? We just got off. We just went to Cozumel. You Know what? What in the world happened? Did I say something? Did I do something? And in my attitude about it, the way I responded to you actually called disagreement. When really all I was trying to figure out is, okay, what did I do and how do I never do this again? That's what I really was trying to figure out. [00:07:50] Speaker A: It really wasn't that you had done anything. It was just one of those moments where I had been bombarded in my sleep. Waking up in the middle of the night, two or three o' clock in the morning, having a random thought and then going, what in the world? I'm over here trying to mind my business, trying to sleep on the cruise ship. Seriously. And then when that happens, though, it's kind of like when you have a bad dream. When you wake up, you're kind of off and it takes a while for you to. Like, if I dreamed like you've dreamed, like if I'm cheating on you and you dream about it, you're mad at me. [00:08:24] Speaker B: I know one guy was named Michael and the other was named. Starts with an L. Lucius or something like that. I don't know what his name was, Larry or Leroy or something, but we had all the. We had all the areas covered. He was on the sea, you were on land, and then we were. [00:08:37] Speaker A: He had dreams. They probably wonder what you're talking about. He had dreams that I was talking to some other guy. [00:08:41] Speaker B: So I saw the text messages. [00:08:43] Speaker A: Both of us. Yeah. [00:08:43] Speaker B: After that person, I woke up kind of ticked off. [00:08:45] Speaker A: I was like, yes, that's what I'm talking about. So that's the same thing. Like, even though I'm not dreaming it, I'm waking up and the thought is there. [00:08:52] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:53] Speaker A: It's unwanted. I don't want to think about it. But I take the bait a lot of. [00:08:57] Speaker B: Yeah, but you know, I think. I think one way that, well, we're going to get into how to deal with them. But one way that I deal with them is I just do deep breathing. You know, if it happens early in the morning like that, I'll get up and I'll make my coffee, my little French press thingy. And I'll sit down in front of the TV and I'll do something, occupy my mind. Or I'll just do deep breathing, listen to some really nice instrumental, instrumental music, you know, and just close my eyes and just let the Lord in and let the Holy Spirit do his work. [00:09:29] Speaker A: So you're pausing to allow the Holy Spirit time to speak to you? [00:09:35] Speaker B: Well, you have to. Because without the Holy Spirit in this. This would not be of this. [00:09:40] Speaker A: Well, so what I've come to realize. And I'm a highly dramatic, sensitive person. We all know that. Anybody who knows me knows I'm sensitive. Seriously super dramatic. [00:09:54] Speaker B: Just kidding. [00:09:55] Speaker A: And really sensitive and really empathetic and. [00:09:59] Speaker B: And there's nothing wrong with that. [00:10:01] Speaker A: No, there's nothing wrong with it. But it sucks because you feel everything so deeply. [00:10:05] Speaker B: Well, it adds an extra dimension that I've had to learn to deal with when it comes to talking to you about things. [00:10:09] Speaker A: Well, you're the same way. We're both that way. So both of us are like, walking on eggshells about it because we don't want to hurt the other person. But what I figured out is when I get into. Because it immediately sends me into fight, flight, or freeze immediately, I can feel like even on the way home. This is probably how you figured it out. We're driving home, I have the thought, I start doing this. [00:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah, you got real quiet, and you start. [00:10:37] Speaker A: I'm grabbing, like, the chair that I'm sitting in or I'm grab. In the car. I'm grabbing the handle on the side, and I can feel my hands going. And my heart starts beating really fast. And it's like the kind where you can hear it in your ears. And, like, my body is saying, okay, we're about to run. We're about to run because something bad's happening. So. And I can't even tell you. Like, sometimes it is something that triggers me, but sometimes it's just a random thought because my brain is like, have you really dealt with this all the way? [00:11:05] Speaker B: You know, but sorry for that extra noise. My microphone is fighting me over here. Anyway. Yeah. I think that I've become pretty aware of your body language. Whenever something is happening, obviously it's the stoic face look. [00:11:21] Speaker A: Really? My face just kind of goes. [00:11:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Then your entire energy area, your entire energy changes, where you're just really, really quiet. And then get real short with your word. Get very, very hurt. And then I'll know something, and I know what it is. But then I ask you, are you okay? Yep. Are you sure? Yeah. [00:11:41] Speaker A: Because I'm trying to internally deal with it. Because I'm like, if I. If I say anything, if I really tell you, you're gonna get upset. [00:11:48] Speaker B: Well. And I need to learn how to argument. Yeah. I need to let you learn how to let you internally. Internally work through it, because I can't fix it, obviously. You know, I'm the one that did it. [00:11:59] Speaker A: Well, but there are moments When I. I would like it if you said something like this. Do you want to talk about anything today that happened or I feel like you're upset. Do you want to talk about it? Like, you bring it up instead of me having to come to you and saying, okay, here's what. I had this horrible dream, or I have this thought that won't go away, and I need to work on how I say it, what I say. So instead of going the accusatory thing where I'm like, well, because you did this, now I'm doing. And that's used to be what I did, and I've really tried hard to go. I'm feeling like, you know, this. This thing you did, this behavior, I'm separating you from. The behavior, first of all, is really making me feel this way. I'm afraid or I'm terrified or I'm not sure. I can't trust you. I don't know if you're telling me the truth. Like, those are the things that are going on through my head. And I don't. I have to calm myself down, like you just said. But that's what I'm not doing, right, Is I'm not stopping to calm myself down. [00:13:05] Speaker B: Right. It just kind of starts rolling downhill, and the longer it rolls, the bigger it gets. [00:13:10] Speaker A: And before you know it, I have created a whole other scenario in my mind. [00:13:13] Speaker B: Right. You know, absolutely. I agree. Okay, so I'm just going to ask you a couple of questions here because I think in our marriage you have, you know, obviously everybody knows about my issues, and that's fine. And I know we talked about this before I came on. Before we came on that. The way I deal with it, through the Lord and the Holy Spirit in. So I think it's really important for the person who was affected by this, the person who was the victim of any type of infidelity, any type of physical mental abuse. Because mental abuse is just as bad as physical abuse, but sometimes worse. Betrayal, criticism, or judgment. If you're married to a narcissist, you will understand all. So, so how. How. How do you work your way through it, and what do you think the steps are that will help you work through it? Better be more mindful of the situation and how to deal with it. [00:14:20] Speaker A: What do you think I can tell you what if you go to a counselor, what they tell you? And some of that does work, but honestly, it doesn't work for me. The way that they tell you it doesn't work for me. You know, they say things like, you need to let it go. You need to just be okay with not knowing, you know, like having some questions that never get answered and that. That can be true. Extent and. But, you know, it wasn't until the Lord told me you. The Lord said to me, because I had that need for details and I was going crazy because if you're. If you're a person who you've been betrayed, there's this insatiable desire that you have for details, and you don't even know why. It's been explained to me that. That it's because your brain is trying to piece it all together. [00:15:06] Speaker B: Right. Right. [00:15:07] Speaker A: In a way that makes sense and it needs the full, complete picture so it can make a true. Okay, here's what I see. Here's my decision based on. [00:15:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:17] Speaker A: And so you can get caught in this loop of like. And then I'll ask you for the question about the detail. I just have some random question in my mind about a detail that doesn't really matter. And you've already answered it before, but I'm asking you again. And I think what I'm trying to do is see if you answer me the same, because if you don't, that's a gotcha moment. Well, see, that's the way I just gotcha. It's actually more like, oh, there's a hole in their layer I didn't know about, but see, I didn't realize I was doing it. You don't. When you're the. When you're the victim in it, you don't know because you're. All you know is I want. I just feel like I don't have the truth. But I'm going to keep asking and I'm going to ask it in a different way to see if you. If you answer me differently, then I'll know I have the truth. [00:16:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:04] Speaker A: And I won't get hurt anymore. It's all about not getting hurt anymore. The bottom of it is I don't want to be hurt anymore. I don't want you to betray me again. And if you're going to, I'm going to cut you off before you have a chance to do it. That's. I think, what you're thinking, well, living. [00:16:19] Speaker B: Like that is unhealthy. [00:16:21] Speaker A: Absolutely it is. [00:16:22] Speaker B: It's not a situation that's going to make for a happy relationship. You've got to learn how to get yourself out of fight or flight mode. If your adrenal glands are constantly working, trying to protect you, give you that extra burst of adrenaline to get out to get out of a situation that's really not there anymore. Then you're going to suffer from adrenal fatigue. You're going to gain weight. [00:16:46] Speaker A: That's an interesting point. You're trying to get away from a situation that's not even there anymore. It's the same thing that you did. It's the same thing. So you come out of combat and your brain is like, I still need adrenaline. But you're not in this situation anymore. But you can't get your brain to understand it. [00:17:04] Speaker B: Right? [00:17:05] Speaker A: It's okay. You're safe. [00:17:06] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:17:06] Speaker A: It's like you can't. It's like you've lost the ability to feel safe. [00:17:10] Speaker B: Well, you've lost the ability to function without it. In 18 years in the military, three wars, and a whole bunch of other things in between. I mean, that's a lot of. That's a lot of adrenaline because you. God, any combat soldiers, heck, even soldiers, period. Whether you saw combat or not, you're a brother. There's still experience the adrenaline once you get it in your system and when you live on it for so long, it becomes addicted like heroin. [00:17:35] Speaker A: But you don't know that you're creating the addiction. [00:17:37] Speaker B: You don't know. [00:17:38] Speaker A: And I think in my own way, I don't have combat trauma, but I have. Let's be honest here. I was not in a healthy marriage before you, but I didn't know for a long time. I was bullied as a child. I was pushed around, beat up sometimes. Like I've been living in a fight or flight state my whole life. So I have something. I don't know if it's just like, you know, everybody's been traumatized, so I don't, I don't like to like put a label on myself and say I have ptsd. Although I think our counselor. That I did. But anyways, whatever, right? But what I'm saying is I also have probably the same. Not situationally like you did, but I have the same need for adrenaline because it's probably been the only thing that's kept me alert. So what my. What I dealt with is suspicion. So always suspicious all the dang time of everyone and everything. And that is actually comes with PTSD too. I mean, you're just like always suspicious. [00:18:46] Speaker B: You know, a lot of people think that you can't get post traffic disorder if you've never shot at, you never had a combat situation. But we're learning now that's pitiful because a car accident causes ptsd, abuse, rape, trauma, anything like that physically happens to you can cause or ongoing abuse, even emotional abuse, which never should happen in a relationship, a healthy one. I think that. I think that. I think that we need to learn to recognize those triggers and remove ourselves from the situation. And if we're unsuccessful at removing those triggers because someone keeps coming at you, then it's time to make some hard decisions. [00:19:32] Speaker A: And that, you know, that's what I've realized with you. As we're talking about, okay, what happens when the trigger moment happens? Right. What do we do? So with you, what happens is, if I start to say something to you that you feel I'm attacking you verbally, you go into defense mode. [00:19:53] Speaker B: I do. [00:19:53] Speaker A: And that's from combat, more than likely. Do you feel threatened? Do you feel like, okay, you got me in a corner and I'm about to come out, you know? [00:20:01] Speaker B: Right. Well, it's. It's like I'm sitting there in a chair and I'm watching football, and my mind is completely on foot, and I feel safe for a moment because I forgot about all the exterior. Exterior things that are going around me. But the moment that a question is asked, then I immediately forget where I'm at as far as where I want with the football game. And I'm immediately aware of my surroundings, and it puts me in hyper vigilance. [00:20:33] Speaker A: Let's talk about the hyper vigilance for a minute, because that was a trigger for you. So we had. We had a situation here, and I'm using this because I want people to see that, like, in a real marriage, like, there's triggers on both sides. So. Yes. So. Okay, let me just. Let me just start the story, and then you can finish it. So. Well, now I'll start it. You say something. But I'm gonna finish. It's really funny. [00:20:57] Speaker B: Yeah, you keep going. [00:20:59] Speaker A: Started noticing our little silly dog, Lex. I think we've talked about her before, that she had fleas. And we're like, what the what? And so we're just like, oh, my God. And then we start seeing them in our house. And then we're like, oh, my gosh, we're trash. We're trashy people, you know? Well, they were all in our yard, and we had no idea. Apparently the fleas are really bad this year. And I think I had missed her. Her chewable for her flea and tick. I forgot it. Get it that hunt. And so we were like, oh, my God. And I mean, it was like World War II at our house. [00:21:29] Speaker B: It was. And we were also taking her off of her anxiety Medication, Anxiety medication. My dog was taking Prozac, people. She also has prescription for Xanax. Well, she's not a very brave dog, but, yeah, we had also started weaning her off of the Prozac, and she was already a basket case by the time I was done with her. [00:21:50] Speaker A: She got about 14 bass. Oh, my Lord. She's constantly shaking. But anyway, it triggered. [00:21:54] Speaker B: Anytime she hears a sink go in the bathroom, she starts shaking. [00:21:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And so for about five or six, seven days, you were. Every time I saw you, you were mopping, sweeping, vacuuming, cussing. Cussing. [00:22:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:08] Speaker A: Giving Lex a bath, screaming at her sometimes. It wasn't even her fault. Then we were. We were treating her. We were giving her flea bath, but we were also giving her. Putting the oil stuff on her back. We were doing. I mean, y'. All. This went on for days. And I was exhausted just watching you. I was doing, like, four times. [00:22:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I remember the last time you came into the. You were in your office working, and I was in the hallway and I. [00:22:31] Speaker A: Was vacuuming, and you had a maniacal work on your face on a coat. [00:22:35] Speaker B: He's still. Please. [00:22:36] Speaker A: I'm going to have to cut that out. [00:22:38] Speaker B: That's fine. And we. I pushed the vacuum and. Okay. And I got a cheap vacuum. It's like 30 bucks. [00:22:45] Speaker A: I love that vacuum. [00:22:45] Speaker B: And it's just a dust buster from the 80s with a cord on it. But I'm vacuuming, I look up, and there you are right in front of me. [00:22:53] Speaker A: In the hallway. [00:22:54] Speaker B: Yeah, in the hallway. And I'm like, hey. You're like. [00:22:56] Speaker A: It was. [00:22:57] Speaker B: You've got to stop. [00:22:59] Speaker A: He looked. You looked like. Okay. It was like a Dr. Jekyll Mister. Like, you were crazy looking. Your eyes were big and just like. [00:23:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:09] Speaker A: Freaked out. And it took me a while to figure out why that sent you. [00:23:13] Speaker B: Well, I finally realized what it was is. Okay. Anyone who's ever in the Middle East, Iraq, or, you know, Saudi Arabia or anything like that, you know, the sand fleas are there. And whenever we were going across the desert during the initial push into Iraq, we was. We. We would line up and we would sleep in what we always called foxholes. And that way you used to bump the berm around you, protect you. [00:23:41] Speaker A: Wait, you dig a hole, or was it like. [00:23:42] Speaker B: Yeah, we dig a hole. We would dig a hole. It wasn't very deep, and it was like that. [00:23:47] Speaker A: Did you have, like, those things around, like those sandbags? No, it was just a hole. [00:23:52] Speaker B: It's just a hole. So whenever you're in There you start noticing that you're getting bit by all these fleas. So our CEO said that we should get some flea collars and don't put them on your skin because it's toxic. But we'd always put them around our boots and around our wrist sleeves. Sleeves on our wrists to keep the fleas off of. [00:24:12] Speaker A: Did it work? [00:24:12] Speaker B: They got everywhere. Oh, my God. [00:24:14] Speaker A: But I mean, did the flea collar work? [00:24:16] Speaker B: It did. It did for a while. Yeah, it did. But. Good God. Anybody that's over there can tell you the sand fleas were just. I swear they were out to kill us. [00:24:25] Speaker A: Right. And so we started talking about that because we hadn't put it together yet. But you said we were talking about fleas in the house. And you were like, you don't understand. I had to deal with this in Iraq, and it was terrible. And they would just get all over me. And that's when I was like, oh, my God. That's what this is. It triggered you. I mean, you went into. I've never seen you like that. [00:24:47] Speaker B: Yeah, it was bad. [00:24:48] Speaker A: You were like, not yourself for five or six, seven days. We, like, 10 days. [00:24:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:53] Speaker A: Because it stressed you out so bad, and it put you back in that moment. And that's what I mean when I say trigger. Because hyper vigilance, it really could be on both sides. And some people's may not be as extreme as that. But we all have them. Yeah, we all have them. [00:25:11] Speaker B: We do. And anybody out there who tells you they don't have some type of emotional trigger, something happened in their lives, led a very boring life. They've been locked in the bedroom forever. But I think that the way that you deal with them, deal with the triggers, you communicate at first. And I have been communicating very, very loudly for a week and a half. [00:25:32] Speaker A: Right. You're losing your mind. [00:25:34] Speaker B: God, I hate those things. And I didn't realize how out of control I was. You can't walk it down that hallway. [00:25:43] Speaker A: I, like, took the vacuum cleaner. I'm like, you have got to stop. [00:25:47] Speaker B: I'm like, what? I've got to kill the dang fleas. What are you talking about? All over the place. [00:25:53] Speaker A: Just go take a hydroxyzine, man. Like 20 of them. [00:25:55] Speaker B: Go take a nap. Go take a nap. Take a flex reel and go to bed or something. [00:25:59] Speaker A: Honestly, I don't know how we got you to calm down, but I think just me bringing it to your attention was, like, part of it. You going, oh, my God, I'm acting crazy. [00:26:08] Speaker B: Well, after the seventh round of Demon And I spray. I even spray the outside stuff. Seven dust, seven dust. I spray that ortho bug. Be gone. [00:26:18] Speaker A: Nothing can survive. I'm surprised we're still alive, honestly. [00:26:21] Speaker B: The house is. The floor is so sterile right now. And then I vacuum four times a day, you know, and then. Okay, so I'm mopped. I. I'm off with Pine Sol. I'm mopped with Clorox. And then I'm off with steaming hot water. [00:26:34] Speaker A: And you stop hot water. You get bread somewhere. [00:26:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I read some Internet. Use salt water. It works. No, they just laugh at you. But, yeah, I definitely have my triggers with that and some of your triggers. Okay, what are the situations that we get into? Whenever you feel your triggers happening? Is it like something that I say? What do you feel whenever you're having your emotional response to these triggers? What triggers them at first? [00:27:05] Speaker A: Mine are usually memories. [00:27:07] Speaker B: Okay. [00:27:08] Speaker A: You know, I just had. Like I said, I'll wake up with it, or just like, it'll hit me in the middle of the day, like I'm doing my own thing, not even thinking about it. And I'll have a moment. [00:27:18] Speaker B: Well. [00:27:18] Speaker A: And I'll be like, I wonder what happened on this. This. He told me this. But, you know, and then it takes me down a rabbit trail, and before I know it, I'm like an FBI investigator or something. And I'm like. I'm like, I am going to get to the bottom of it. And I don't even know why, because it doesn't matter. So what it does is it's that hyper vigilant thing. That's what I go into. But it's. It's. So what I had to learn is. Okay, because in when you're talking about being a Christian, one of the things a hallmark I think of a spirit filled Christian is discernment. Right? We should be able to discern when something is not right or when somebody's lying to us, usually the Holy Spirit. And I have. I thought I had a gift of discernment. I've questioned that. Now after all I've been through, I'm like, God, how did you not know that was coming? You know? But there's suspicion and then there's discernment. This is where it gets tricky, right? Especially if you're a woman, because women have like this intuition thing anyway. We have intuition. And then if you're spirit filled and then you walk in the prophetic like I do, you can get really kind of like confused as to, am I discerning something or am I just Being suspicious. [00:28:31] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:31] Speaker A: So that's where I've been trapped. That's why it's been so hard, because I don't know if I can trust myself to discern whether you are doing something or whether I do know the truth or, you know, like, are you going to do it again? Those are the thoughts that go through my mind. And this is what brings me back and this is what centers me. Because you're asking, what do you do? How do you work? I have said, okay, I can't know your thoughts. I can't know absolutely every detail that happened. I'm sure there's things that you left out or don't remember or whatever. I don't know. But I may not be able to fully trust you the way I want to, the way that I wish we had right now. But I do trust the God in you. I trust him in you, and I know that he's there and he's going to handle you. That's what gives me. [00:29:25] Speaker B: And he has several times since all that happened. God's not a bad God. He's a loving God. But sometimes his love is hard. His love is tough. And he will put you in a situation. [00:29:38] Speaker A: We push ourselves to where he has to be that way. [00:29:40] Speaker B: Yeah, we do. Like the Israelites. Gosh, he gave him hundred thousand years. He gave him thousands of years to get. Well, not thousands. [00:29:48] Speaker A: Let me clean up my statement a little bit because it sounded. It probably sounded harsh or mean. I want to. Because we're rebuilding trust, right? That could. That could possibly take years. It really could. Because what has to happen when you rebuild trust is you have to be given the opportunity to do things, to show me I can trust you. Right, Right. Like I've got to let go of the leash a little bit. Like the counselors told us. Okay, you got to let him go. And I've tried, and I do try. That doesn't mean I don't have panic attacks in moments where I'm scared. But the longer this goes on, the easier it gets. I'm not. I'm not. I'm never gonna have. I don't think we'll ever have what we had before that's gone. We have. We have to rebuild something new, hopefully something better. But, you know, I trust that God in you to ease your leash. You know what I mean? [00:30:42] Speaker B: Well, I think it's important that you see the changes in me. [00:30:45] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. [00:30:46] Speaker B: Because somebody can sit there and tell you all day long, yeah, I'm a Christian. And then start cussing up a storm and do everything opposite of what a Christian should be. Treating people bad, you know, just all kinds of things. And I think it's important that you see that I'm walking the walk instead of just talking the talk too. With my Christianity and with my faith, I think that's important. [00:31:07] Speaker A: I think the spirit of the Lord will reason with us. You know, like the scripture that says, come and let me reason with you. [00:31:15] Speaker B: You know, come, let us reason together. [00:31:17] Speaker A: Come, let us reason together. Yeah. So where I'm going with that is like this morning I was having the thoughts even before we went to church. I was having them. We got in the truck to come home, we had a great church service, and I was having them again. Something hit me again. It's relentless. And sometimes I think it's spiritual, I think it's demonic, but sometimes I think it's just, you know me, I think enemy hits me a lot with it. But what I kept hearing, and this is what kind of brought me back besides, okay, I can trust the God in you, was, yes, but look at all the, like you just said, look at all the decisions and the, the progress you've made and the things that you've given up. And I had to like, go, okay, he still loves me. This is really literally what I had to do. Because I was like, does he even love me if he did that? Like, I still have those moments and I'm like. And then I have to go, yes, he loves me. He wouldn't be here. He did this, he does this. He's given this up. He walked away from his career. [00:32:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Quit drinking alcohol. I walked away From a great 12 year nursing career, you know, just to save. [00:32:24] Speaker A: Not to mention completely giving your whole life to God and going to church. I used to, we used to kind of not have fights. But you would have a meltdown if I asked you to go to church or go to some kind of like Christian event with me because you would have a panic attack about it. And I was always scared to ask you because I'm like, I guess I'll just go by myself because I don't want you to like fall apart, you know. Well, that's gone now. You're just like, okay, we're going to go. We just go. We don't even think about it. We just do it. [00:32:51] Speaker B: Well, when it comes to church, I think about, well, you know, it's a small thing. You know me, I'm going to complain about the music, I'm going to complain about the people. I'm going to complain about the seats. Am I a chronic complainer? I guess I am. But. Okay, here's one thing that I have a hard time with. It's singing the same verse over and over and over to like an hour and a half. [00:33:16] Speaker A: Well, we didn't do that today. [00:33:17] Speaker B: And we didn't do that today. Today at our church in Tyler, man, it hit me at my heart. It really did. But. But I think that. Okay, I got off subject. What are we talking about? [00:33:29] Speaker A: Yeah. So. Well, what I, what I had said was that, you know, how I got centered back was. [00:33:38] Speaker B: Yes. [00:33:39] Speaker A: Seeing all the strides you had made and how hard you had worked. And the fact that now we go to church and you don't complain about it. [00:33:45] Speaker B: Yeah, we don't complain about it anymore because, I mean, because that's where I get fed. [00:33:49] Speaker A: Right? [00:33:49] Speaker B: You know, my spirit is there. Today. I feel the spirit in church. It was a beautiful service. It was really nice. We're non denominational, in case you guys didn't know. But the church we're going to used to be a Church of Christ. [00:34:03] Speaker A: No, it was Church God. [00:34:05] Speaker B: Church of God. [00:34:05] Speaker A: It is still Church of God. They just don't have it on the name anymore. [00:34:09] Speaker B: But when I walked in there, I instantly felt heat from the spirit. And the spirit was like, okay, you're back now, Hank. Sit down and just let me take control. And the whole service was just wonderful, you know, so I don't fight with that kind of stuff anymore. I do get, I still, I do still get anxiety about it just being in a situation that I cannot control. There's too many ingress and egress points. [00:34:38] Speaker A: Well, not to mention, you know, now that you say that, remember you had panic attacks about getting on the ship for the cruise and that ended up being amazing. You ended up loving it. [00:34:50] Speaker B: I was about to throw up. Okay, so those ships, you guys have never been on a cruise ship before. It. Okay, so structurally it makes no freaking sense whatsoever. The ship is like 200ft tall, so it's gotta be top. So all I can see when I'm walking up, the ship's like, okay, I'm gonna be the last ounce of weight on the right side of the ship. Make it flip over and I'm gonna die. And they're sharks. So that caused me some severe anxiety. Almost threw up a couple of times. But you know what, though? Daddy held it down. [00:35:18] Speaker A: Yeah, you did better than he. Okay, so I had a panic attack just trying to get through like the check in process and where they look at your documents and I was shaking because they were like, you don't have your. You don't have your marriage license, and your name's changed. I'm like, are you not gonna let me on, like. [00:35:37] Speaker B: See you, babe? [00:35:38] Speaker A: I'm freaking out and panicking, and you're like, it's okay. Like. And I'm like, oh, my God. I was worried about you, and I'm the one that lost my mind. [00:35:46] Speaker B: Well, like, when we went down to that little function down in Houston a couple of weeks ago, baby, it's not too late to turn around. And I'm thinking, okay, if they don't let us off, we just spend the night for a few days, go back home. [00:35:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:58] Speaker B: I'm automatically thinking, okay, how can we. [00:36:02] Speaker A: You know, I think that if anybody's listening to this and you're married to someone who has ptsd, especially from combat, I think combat's the more prevalent one as far as it prevalent, but it's the one that it's the hardest because you don't like to be confined, right? You don't like to be a big crowd. You don't like loud noises, things like that. And so if you're married to someone like that, you really have got to learn how to identify their triggers and help them walk through it as well and not expect them to do things that are just super uncomfortable now or it makes it worse. Like, so when I booked the cruise, my thought was, oh, we need a vacation. It's gonna be so much fun. And I was thinking, I know he's scared, but surely he'll be. You know, he'll get on there. He'll love it. It's not. It's not scary. I've been on three, you know, But I really thought he needs to face his fears. [00:36:59] Speaker B: I do. [00:37:00] Speaker A: That's what I thought. [00:37:00] Speaker B: You know, he faced his fears when. [00:37:01] Speaker A: It'S convenient for you, face his fears. And so I'm like, I face my fears all the time. I drive in big cities, and it scares me, and I do it. You know what I mean? [00:37:09] Speaker B: Okay, seriously, guys, I can't remember the last time Shanna drove with me in the vehicle. So. [00:37:14] Speaker A: Because I scare you. So, anyway, so we get on, and you have the time of your life. You're like, I want to do this every year. [00:37:19] Speaker B: And I'm like, yeah, I'm all for it. Let's do it every year, you know, so. [00:37:22] Speaker A: But I think you have to know if you're the spouse of some of someone who has ptsd, you have to know when to push It a little bit and when to back off. Because, like, sometimes I feel like, okay, if I help you kind of push through this barrier of this one thing that you're afraid of, it helps you realize, okay, I don't have to be afraid of this anymore. But then there's also this. This kind of barrier where I don't want it to be so. So awful that you're just miserable, and it makes it worse, you know? [00:37:52] Speaker B: Absolutely. Okay, so what can we do together? Or what can you do to manage the strong emotions when they come up? What. What strategies have you. [00:38:03] Speaker A: Oh, it's the Lord. It's. It's the Lord. I have to. Like when I was saying I have to determine suspicion or discernment. And the only way I can do that is to stop, pray, like, meditate on the Lord. I'm telling you, the first you've seen me do it, I'll grab my Bible. I'm like, okay, Lord, I can't even think straight. You're just gonna have to give me something right now. And he does, and I'll flip it open, and it'll be like this scripture, and it'll be exactly, exactly like the prayer I just prayed. He answers it with that scripture. And that's what gives me comfort. I have to hear it from him, right? I have to know, because I know that he only tells the truth. If he tells me something, I know he's good for it and that it's the truth. Now let me give you an example of this. I had a trigger one time. I've had about a billion since this happened, but I was having one. It was about details. It was about me being scared that I didn't know if there were more women from your past or whatever. And so I was sitting there, you were. I think you were asleep. And I flipped open my Bible, I was asking the Lord to show me, and I flip it open, and it literally says, it's talking about Jesus when he's being handed over. Well, they're trying to hand him over, but they don't have all the facts yet. They don't have enough. They don't have any facts. They're just making up stuff. But they couldn't even. It says they could not corroborate the stories they were telling. And so they had to dismiss it. It was something like that. It was like. Because they couldn't corroborate their stories, it was dismissed. And that's what the Lord, like, literally, he proved that. He spoke to me, and he was like, this information that. Because it was because of this other person that had told me something. Right? [00:39:47] Speaker B: Right. [00:39:47] Speaker A: He's like, this is not corroborated by anyone else, so you can dismiss it. He literally used a passage of scripture, word for word, and answered me. So for me, that's what I have to do. I have to go to the Bible. I have to pray. I may have to pray in the spirit. I may have to. I may have to. And I have friends. And I'll say, I need prayer today. Right now. I need you to stop what you're doing right now and pray with me. And they do. And because what happens is your mind, it gets, like, so cloudy, and all that you can feel is the emotion, and you're shaking, and you can't. You know, like you're panicking. [00:40:24] Speaker B: Right. [00:40:25] Speaker A: You can't think straight. You can't discern truth. [00:40:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:40:27] Speaker A: Because you're scared. [00:40:28] Speaker B: So how was your past? I know that we both have a past as far as family goes. So how has your past influenced the way that you deal with emotional triggers where you communicate them with me? How's that my past? How does it path your past triggers on top of what I've done? [00:40:46] Speaker A: Okay, so you're saying I already had issues coming in that had triggers, and then now I have these new ones. [00:40:54] Speaker B: Right. Sorry, guys. [00:40:56] Speaker A: It's like I'm walking on a landmine. Right? [00:41:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:03] Speaker A: I think being aware of your tendency. [00:41:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:07] Speaker A: Over overthink or to be suspicious. [00:41:10] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:11] Speaker A: Is if you can pause long enough to realize that, you know, whatever this situation is, and especially if it looks like something I've already been through, that's when it comes up. That's when a trigger happens. It's like, okay, this situation I'm in looks like this thing I went through. And this. This thing I went through over here almost killed me. [00:41:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:28] Speaker A: So that's why your brain takes over, because it's trying to. All it wants to do is for you to survive. It doesn't care if you're comfortable. It doesn't care if you're hurting. It's just saying, hey, you're not safe. [00:41:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:38] Speaker A: You have to survive. [00:41:39] Speaker B: Yeah. That's what fight or flight is for. That's what Remnant is for, is maybe you don't feel safe in a situation. [00:41:45] Speaker A: But it's hard when it's a relationship and it's an emotional thing and it's betrayal or something like that, because your brain doesn't know the difference between what happened and real danger. [00:41:56] Speaker B: Right. Okay, so we've got. Okay, so is There anything that you need from me that you haven't asked me for yet that would help you feel more supported whenever it comes through? I mean, is there anything that I can say or do? Like I know that, I know that the way I approach you and ask you, you know, I can approach you with the curiosity and I can be non judgmental about it. That kind of creates a safe space for you where you'll feel comfortable seeing that saying, okay, yeah, yeah, this is what I'm having. [00:42:37] Speaker A: If I feel like you're annoyed and aggravated about it, then that makes me kind of mad too because I'm like, oh, really? Okay, let's go into fight mode. I'm not, I'm not fleeing. [00:42:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:42:49] Speaker A: I'm not freezing. Let's fight. And that's not right. That's not going to help either because then you say things you don't mean, you really don't mean them, but you're just trying to hurt the other person, you know? [00:42:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:43:00] Speaker A: So I think you have to be so. And this is so hard. I know it is. You have to be super patient. I mean beyond. And that's going to take the Lord. You have to be kind with your words and compassionate. I think if you can do those things consistently so that the other person feels like you're genuine. Like so. Because here's what happens. If you get defensive, then it makes me feel like you don't really. You're not really sorry and you're not really in this with me. [00:43:31] Speaker B: Right. And that's understandable. That is. I think it's really important that we use I statements when we're talking about the things that are going on. If I get triggered by this. Because anything other than that sounds accusatory. [00:43:45] Speaker A: So what would be accusatory? So something triggers me. What's the wrong way to say that? [00:43:52] Speaker B: A jerk. Remember this? [00:43:55] Speaker A: I don't say that. [00:43:56] Speaker B: You don't say that. [00:43:57] Speaker A: What have I done that was wrong though? What did I. [00:44:00] Speaker B: You just get real quiet. But I can tell from your body actions that there's something going on. [00:44:04] Speaker A: So you would rather me say, say it, man. I'm having a moment. Here's what's happening. I'm remembering this and I'm struggling with this stupid thing question that I have about it. But I know that if I ask you not going to bring me any more answers or anything different. [00:44:22] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:23] Speaker A: So how do I move past that? You know, that's where I get is just that you're stuck in it and you don't know how to, like, stop thinking about it other than bring it. And I know before we have actually stopped and prayed. We have. And I would say that is number one. Like, do that. So you're. You're in the moment. You're kind of. You can feel it. You can feel the fight. It's gonna come up. Somebody got triggered. You're right there at the. Okay, let's stop and pray. [00:44:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that if I so. And I've done this so wrong so many times, but I think that one thing that I could do to make it better is that whenever I know that you're having one of those moments, instead of coming to you and saying what's wrong? I can come up and I can say, look, I can see he's having a hard time. And you're safe. It's a safe space around us. I said, let's just talk about, talk it out. And without using the you or you did or things like that. Use. I. I'm feeling this, I'm feeling that. And then I can respond with the I response. You know, that way it keeps it more centered. [00:45:33] Speaker A: Well, I have to keep going back to. It's us against the problem. Okay. So whenever I want to be accusatory towards you, and it'd be like, you did this to me. You did that. Which you did those things, but I have to learn how to separate you from that behavior. [00:45:50] Speaker B: Right. [00:45:51] Speaker A: Because you're not my enemy. It was the thing that you did. Yeah, that. That's what hurt. Because if I could separate, then you won't get as offended when I talk to you and say, okay, you know, the betrayal really hurt me. [00:46:05] Speaker B: Well, and I'm pretty sure there are people out there saying right now, I don't care if you get offended. You cheated on me. Well, okay, yes, I did. And if your spouse or your boyfriend or significant other, whatever you have, has cheated and they have gone through all of the emotion, they have completely rewritten their life. [00:46:27] Speaker A: They've been repentant. [00:46:28] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. I confess to everybody. I'm at Walmart and I'm talking to. [00:46:32] Speaker A: People about it, crying, telling people, strangers. [00:46:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm telling people, strangers, hey, man, look what I did. You know, so if the person that you're with is not doing those things, that they are not repentant. If they haven't, confess it. Because Jesus said himself, if you confess it before, man, I'll confess it to my Father. [00:46:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And there's not forgiveness without confession. [00:46:53] Speaker B: There's not forgiveness without confession. So it's really Important that we realize that we've got to. We have got to be consistent with the safe space that we build for you. And we've got to maintain patience. Patience is the big deal, because during that time when you're having your emotional triggers, you're not feeling very patient about anything. [00:47:17] Speaker A: You're on with your own. Like you told me earlier. I didn't know that. Sometimes you're like, I'm driving home, and all of a sudden I get triggered with thoughts of Satan's, like, you know, you did this. You did this. You're such a loser. [00:47:31] Speaker B: Well, I wake up sometimes with that, too. You know, I wake up some of that, too. But. But what I do is I just quickly just close my eyes and I'm saying, I'm not that man. I'm not that man. I'm not that man. And then I beg the Lord, and usually he does. Usually he does. [00:47:48] Speaker A: I think that's where so many people don't stop and ask him for help. And I've been guilty of that, too, you know, But I'm learning to stop. [00:47:55] Speaker B: Well, that plays into a really interesting topic. I don't know if I can close this up. It plays into a really interesting topic, and it's that we've got to acknowledge each other's vulnerability because you and I don't like to portray ourselves. [00:48:06] Speaker A: I don't want to be vulnerable because that means you could stab me. That's what. That's what I'm thinking. [00:48:10] Speaker B: Not literally. [00:48:11] Speaker A: You know what I'm saying? [00:48:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I know what you mean. [00:48:12] Speaker A: That's what we emotionally are thinking. So it's like, I'm going to stab you before you stab me. [00:48:17] Speaker B: Right, Right. But. But we have to learn that, hey, we're married. We're a couple in this together. [00:48:22] Speaker A: We're on the same team. [00:48:23] Speaker B: So it's okay to be vulnerable with me because I'm not going to condemn you. [00:48:27] Speaker A: It. [00:48:28] Speaker B: I'm not going to pick on you about it. I'm not going to laugh because this is no laughing matter. I'm not going to try to sidetrack the conversation. I'm going to acknowledge that you're vulnerable and let you know that you can depend on me and that will help build the deeper connection between us. [00:48:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I think if you. If you said, I know you're dealing with something right now. [00:48:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:48:54] Speaker A: This is. It's a safe place. You can say, I'm not going to get upset. I will answer if I know going into it that you are open and you're willing to talk to me. That makes a huge difference. [00:49:05] Speaker B: It does. [00:49:07] Speaker A: You know, but if you're defensive, then it means, oh, you're hiding something. [00:49:11] Speaker B: Right. [00:49:12] Speaker A: That's what it. That's what it feels like. It may not absolutely, but in one way. Well, I think what it really means, though, the reason you want to talk about it, because it hurts, it sucks. You hate yourself that you did it. [00:49:23] Speaker B: You have to acknowledge your sin. Yeah. [00:49:27] Speaker A: You got to go back to the place again. [00:49:29] Speaker B: Right. And you know, there's a voice in your head that's always saying, well, you know what? Jesus already gave you for that, so you gotta talk about it. [00:49:34] Speaker A: Right. [00:49:35] Speaker B: Wrong answer. Way, way wrong answer. Not even right at all. But I think that. I think a lot of this, the communication thing, comes down to the way the defending party changes. If the offending party just says, I'm sorry, and then continues to go out, they continue to do things they were doing before. [00:49:57] Speaker A: Secret still. [00:49:59] Speaker B: There are no secrets to our marriage anymore. [00:50:01] Speaker A: But I mean, if the party, like you just said, if this person they're married to, they do not have genuine repentance, they're not changing their lifestyle in some way, they're not patient with you, they're not walking in step with God, then. Then it's a different story. [00:50:16] Speaker B: Right. You can't ever say the party that was offended, that. Oh, my God, that was six months ago. [00:50:21] Speaker A: Right. [00:50:22] Speaker B: Don't do that. [00:50:23] Speaker A: Like, because I'm over here thinking. Because I've said, oh, freaking. You think six months is a long time? And then it's like, you know, like it turns into, like this. [00:50:33] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like fighting Alley cat. [00:50:35] Speaker A: It's like. And you're like, okay, I'm never going to say that again. [00:50:38] Speaker B: Yeah. So we're really just doing things that work for us. Not telling you that this is how it's going to work for everyone. Because every couple is different. Every situation is different. We just happen to have a great kind of personalities that gel well together. [00:50:56] Speaker A: That's what we. I think that's one of the things that we knew when we got together. We were shocked at how it seemed. We were super compatible and we liked each other's personality. [00:51:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:51:07] Speaker A: And we laughed about everything. And we had similar sense of humor. I lied, of course, about wanting to be outside, but whatever, you know? So, okay, I think we are talking about. We told that story. They already know it. If you haven't heard that story, go back a couple episodes. [00:51:21] Speaker B: She's the hiking master. [00:51:22] Speaker A: It's really, really funny. Anyways, so I think Though if we could summarize what works for us. [00:51:29] Speaker B: Right. [00:51:29] Speaker A: And like bullet points, I would say pausing. [00:51:33] Speaker B: Yes. [00:51:34] Speaker A: Praying. [00:51:36] Speaker B: Praying should be a huge part of it because that really opens the floodgates for the Holy Spirit. [00:51:41] Speaker A: And if you can do it together, that would be great. But if you're so mad that you can't even do it together, then take a break and go pray by yourself. [00:51:48] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:51:49] Speaker A: Pausing, Praying, meditating. And then for me, it's definitely the Bible for sure. So I do those things. And if I can't get it under control like that, then I'm reaching out to a friend and I'm saying, listen, I'm struggling really bad. I need you to pray with me. I got a funk. Got a funky demon thing hanging around me or something and I can't even see straight. [00:52:10] Speaker B: Right, right. That makes sense. And that should. That, that worked. But like we said, that works for us. You have to. Every situation is going to be different because there's no two people on this planet that are the exact same. So you have to figure out what worked for you. But if you're a Christian, you're listening to the podcast, a Christ centered approach to it is probably the number one thing that you need, is remember that Jesus Christ took on all sin. He took on. He ripped the veil from the top to the bottom just so we could have direct access to God. And that's through prayer and fasting and just genuine repentance of our sins. And once we do that stuff, praying, we ask for repentance. And you have to confess it publicly. Guys, girls, you're the offending party. You need to confess it publicly before. [00:53:02] Speaker A: Yeah, you don't have to tell everybody, but you need. There needs to be some confession at some level. [00:53:06] Speaker B: There has to be some confession with the first. The first people that I. When I got out of the hospital, the first people I talked to was your parents, you know, because to me, that was the biggest part of all of it. [00:53:20] Speaker A: Al. Andre, you actually told our friends? [00:53:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I did. I told everyone. [00:53:24] Speaker A: Yeah, and they were all. Most of them were great. [00:53:27] Speaker B: Well, you got to realize, you're going to realize that even your friends have problems. You're going to realize that no one is perfect. And the one way the enemy can make you feel so low about yourself is he makes you think that nobody else has ever made the mistakes that you've made, which is not true at all. You know, an addiction is an addiction, no matter who it is. And you find out a lot of things about a lot of people that you didn't know. And once you find that out, you're like, okay, so I'm not going to hell, you know, because these are good people that I found out about. You know, they told me to my face, and I'm like, oh, my God. [00:54:08] Speaker A: Yeah. You were like, holy cow. You had this problem. [00:54:11] Speaker B: Yeah, because when I hit that. When I hit that, when we hit that house, I was so scared that they were going to just. They were just going to reject me about it, you know? And once all the communication started and. And they started telling me their story, then I'm like, okay, I'm not alone in this as I thought I was, but you've got to let God work because I didn't want to go that night. [00:54:36] Speaker A: I know you didn't. [00:54:37] Speaker B: I did not. I was so mad. I was like, no, I don't want to go. You know, I'm feeling kind of sick now. My toe hurts, you know, But. But once I got there, it was amazing. It was amazing. It was such a good night beginning. Okay, so confessing is one way to get out of your comfort zone. Because we live in this, you know, the adulterer or the offender, they live in this little world where your wife finds out about it or your husband or your spouse or your partner or whatever finds out about it, and that's the end of it. Oh, no, buddy, that's not the end of it. That's just the beginning. I mean, you've got to rip the band aid off for the world to see. Yeah. [00:55:14] Speaker A: And I think that's because. And I'm just thinking this through as I'm saying it, because when you think about. We're considered to be the body of Christ, right? And so if I cut myself really bad, you know, like, I don't know, like I sliced my wrist or something, you know, like, if I don't. If the rest of my body didn't know, like, if my brain wasn't communicating with, you know, blood cells to tell white blood, whatever, clot up so I don't die, you know, I mean, like, I don't know what I'm talking about, but you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, my body has to communicate within itself. And if this is not talking to the rest of the body, then it can't heal. The body heals the body. Right. So that's what I'm trying to say is, like, the reason I think God does this is, number one, it's humility. [00:56:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:03] Speaker A: Number two, you can't be healed without involving the rest of body. [00:56:08] Speaker B: Well, I think that. I think that the church is a huge deal. I think that. So our situation started off really rocky with the church because I was begging for deliverance, you know, and went to the front of the church after that. [00:56:25] Speaker A: Sermon because you were like this. You were like, I think I might have, like, a demonic attachment. Like, seriously, I don't know if I need to be delivered or, you know. [00:56:36] Speaker B: And that guy flat out told me, you know what? We don't really do that. [00:56:38] Speaker A: We don't really know, but call me. [00:56:40] Speaker B: And then we can talk. [00:56:41] Speaker A: So. So here's what happened. You. I'm like, y' all get out of my way. And I put my. It's the devil. [00:56:47] Speaker B: It's the devil. [00:56:48] Speaker A: No, no, no. Oh, yeah. She kept saying that. But I put my hand. Did I put it on your head or your heart? Okay. And you said. And I just took authority, and I was like, whatever's going on here, I bind it in the name of Jesus. You said you actually felt heat. [00:57:01] Speaker B: I did feel heat. [00:57:02] Speaker A: And I was like, oh, my God. The. The church. The church. The leadership of the church should have been able to handle that situation. I was. I was frustrated with that, so I stepped in and helped. And that's when we were. But God sent us to other places where we did get help that we needed. And then we realized, okay, we don't think this is a demonic attachment. We think this is trauma. [00:57:25] Speaker B: Trauma. Keep that adrenaline going. [00:57:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:30] Speaker B: But at the end of the day, it's really important for the offending party, male or female, to get out of their comfort zone and live. Okay, I'm just gonna say live naked for a while. Live naked for the world to see. Okay. Because the less that you have on, the more the world sees. And it helps people realize that you're not a bad person, for one thing. Because it takes a lot of gall to go up to someone that you barely know. We have a lot of courage, like our friend. I didn't really know him that well, but I had seen him maybe four times. And it takes a lot of nerve and a lot of. Yeah. To go up to them and say, I did this. And I'm going to tell you guys why I did this. I'm going to tell you all of it. [00:58:22] Speaker A: Please forgive me for it. [00:58:23] Speaker B: And please forgive me for it, because I was so broken, man. And to see the forgiveness. Everybody does that. [00:58:31] Speaker A: Yes. And I loved it, because you got to see that. True believers, the body of Christ, the true body. That's how they respond. [00:58:38] Speaker B: Well, I Got to see them vulnerable. And it made me okay to feel vulnerable myself. So. [00:58:43] Speaker A: So I think. I think a good point or a good way to phrase this, humility leads to freedom. Humility leads to freedom. Because when you humble yourself enough to confess, because it takes so much humility to confess something and vulnerability, then God is like, okay, since you did that, here's the freedom that you want. Now you're free from the thing. [00:59:04] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely Will. So, guys, ladies, out there, if you've been in a situation like us, and we pretty much laid it all out for you, the steps that we've gone through, creating a safe space, listening to your spouse. Use I statements. Don't use you did this or you do that. Create I statements for you. Come at them with love. Come at them with patience and understanding. Because eventually this does get better, but it doesn't get forgotten and it never will. You know, that's something that's never going to happen, is it's never going to be forgotten. And it could come up 20 years from now. You know, I'll be 73. [00:59:51] Speaker A: But I don't think it has the sting. The further you get from it and the better things get, the healing, I think that you think about it, but it doesn't have the take your breath away feeling that you still have, you know? [01:00:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I think. I think that we've got to recognize what triggers, your triggers, and we have to work out a way to get around. Like, you have access to my phone, you have access to everything I've got my passwords, you have access to all my social media. So I think that that's a really important step because that also goes into. [01:00:30] Speaker A: Vulnerability, you know, I think. And to add to that, like, you didn't have that porn addiction thing, but a lot of people do. And there are apps that your spouse can get, you guys can get, and they can actually see what you look at. And that's a great accountability tool. But beyond that, I think you need other people in your life that hold you accountable, that you talk to. [01:00:54] Speaker B: Right? And then you've got to deal with strategies for coping and healing. You've got to come together and say, okay, this happened. This is what you're going through now. How can we get the next level and start. Start the healing process? And I think for you, the big part of the healing process for you was me just putting it all out there. I think that that made you realize. [01:01:15] Speaker A: That I was truly rewarded. It helped me put all the pieces together because, you know, the way this came out, it didn't come out all at once. And finally in March is when you. You actually told me, okay, here is that full. You know, that's when I found out you had the sexual addiction and all that. [01:01:33] Speaker B: So. [01:01:34] Speaker A: And that's when I was able to put everything together. And I was like, okay, now I'm starting to kind of understand this better than I did before. And it did. It helped me. Now here's what I think beyond that, because you can get really caught up in living in the trauma of the past. Pain of the past. You become a victim, and you never get out of it. That's not where God wants us to stay. And so something we've learned we're doing is to be forward, focused. There's a time in a moment, in a season to grieve, to walk through the pain that of the thing that happened. And you might need a few months of that. You know, you might even meet a year or something. But you've got to, at some point, say, don't want to live in the past anymore. I want us to move forward. What can we build together? What. What do we agree on? What is what? What kind of life do we want to build? [01:02:26] Speaker B: Absolutely. [01:02:27] Speaker A: And then start moving forward. I think that's the key. [01:02:30] Speaker B: Well, you know, there's this really cool song by. What's the name? Seabiscuit, Jelly Jelly, Jelly Donut, Jelly Roll. I don't listen to him as a part of his songs that says, I took down the rearview mirror so I can see what's more in front of me. [01:02:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:50] Speaker B: Because the rearview mirrors, Melissa, you can see behind you, but it's designed to be real small. [01:02:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:55] Speaker B: And that keeps you from seeing the bigger picture. Like, okay, I came through this. We've coped with it. We've gotten emotional triggers down. We've got our safe space. We're working through this together without you. Statements with I statements. And now the world is opened up in front of you. You know, now the world is. And like I'm saying, this works for us, but now the world is opened up for us to where we can begin the healing process. And I realize that it's going to take a while, if ever. You know, I'm not trying to push anything. I don't always respond the right way. I'm human. And there are days when I just don't want to talk about it, but those are usually the days when you do. So I just have to learn that, you know what? Everything's out. I just have to learn that talking about it is the way that you heal. And the more. The worst response that I have is going to trigger your suspicions that there's more to it. If I just sit down and I approach you and say, okay, you're safe. What can I do to help you get. [01:03:59] Speaker A: What do you want to know? [01:04:00] Speaker B: What do you want to know? What do you want to ask me instead of saying, why are we doing this right now? [01:04:05] Speaker A: About this? [01:04:06] Speaker B: Yeah, we've already talked about this, like, a thousand times. Well, you know what? A thousand, one thousand, and one more time is coming up. Two more thousand times are coming up. Don't ever say, we've already talked about this. I'm telling you now. The couch is not a safe place to sleep. But you have to realize that you took something away from that person that you hurt. You took away their security. You took away their feeling of adequacy. You took away their feeling of confidence, and you took away their feeling of safety. They're not safe anymore around you because they looked at you like you were a rock. And now all of a sudden, you're not. You're flawed. And it's going to take a while to rebuild that trust again. But using those. Using the things that we've discussed, when it comes to emotional triggers, working through your past experiences, obviously counseling helps. [01:04:56] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. [01:04:57] Speaker B: Obviously, counseling is wonderful. But using the things we've gone through have helped us tremendously. Now, I'll be honest with you. Creating a safe space, I never even thought about that. I never thought about walking, say, okay, you're safe. But that's. That's something that I've learned. [01:05:13] Speaker A: That's what has happened, though. It makes sense. Because I don't feel safe anymore. [01:05:16] Speaker B: Right. [01:05:17] Speaker A: And that's why I'm reacting like this, because I'm scared. You know, I'm scared that. That you're going to do it again, or I'm scared that there's way more than I know. [01:05:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:26] Speaker A: So giving that person the security. And here's the thing. Tell them the truth. Even if it's horrible, tell them the truth. [01:05:34] Speaker B: Right. [01:05:35] Speaker A: Do not continue to sugarcoat it or, you know, leave out details, because you don't. Because you don't want to hurt him. I'm quoting. You know, because really, what you're probably doing is sparing yourself. But, like, tell them the truth, because they're not going to heal unless you tell them the truth. [01:05:51] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And the truth starts the healing process. [01:05:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I want to say, though, as we're wrapping up, that, as, you know, you were saying earlier, Kind of alluding to saying something like, you know, if we ever do truly heal or have, you know, something better. I believe that with. With God, all things are possible. And that was the scripture that popped into my head where Jesus talking to Nicodemus and he's saying, yeah, Nicodemus is like, how. How can you be born again? That's impossible. Can you go back into your mother's womb? [01:06:24] Speaker B: Right. [01:06:25] Speaker A: And Jesus said, with God all things are possible. Because he was talking about a spiritual birth which had never happened before. Right, right. It didn't even exist. So for him to say that was something crazy. And Nicodemus couldn't even understand what he meant. Like, how can. What. So what I'm saying is there is nothing impossible with God. God can fix any broken marriage, broken person. I really believe that if you give him the reins. Oh my gosh, I'm thinking of the. My dream I had the other night about Jesus. Take the wheel. Anyways, so if you give him the reins of the marriage and of your heart, personally take responsibility for yourself. Allow him to fully surrender to him, both of you. And then collectively, if you involve him in it, he will. He will restore it and he will make it better than before. [01:07:13] Speaker B: Absolutely he will. [01:07:14] Speaker A: I mean, I don't know how he does it. He wants to do it. He wants to use your story just like he's using ours to show people that he can restore anything. [01:07:23] Speaker B: Well, you know, you have to look at the humiliation that Jesus suffered. The King of the Universe, he created everything and his creation is killing. He was naked on the cross with a crown of thorns on his head. Beat him down the Via de la Rosa. Human beings judged him, but there was nothing to judge him for. So Pontius Pilate just said, let's go ahead and crucify him anyway. Just make the people happy. The King of the universe was killed by. Just to pacify, you know, you have to remember that. And he suffered the ultimate humiliation. So if he can do that and save our lives, I can do that and save my marriage. [01:08:09] Speaker A: The humiliation of. Of dying for something you didn't even deserve. Like, for sins you never committed. [01:08:15] Speaker B: Well, you have to die in the flesh. [01:08:16] Speaker A: And he was. He was stripped of his clothing. I don't even know if he had anything on, to be honest. [01:08:21] Speaker B: I don't know. You know, they always show him with a little rag. [01:08:23] Speaker A: Makes you wonder, like, it makes you. [01:08:24] Speaker B: Wonder what he had because he was beaten all the way through. So. But yeah, I think that if you have a hard time being vulnerable, just think about that situation there. Put yourself in a situation with Jesus going down that. Going down that brick road and carrying that cross. And he knows that he can call legions of angels immediately and they'd be there and they would kill everyone. [01:08:51] Speaker A: But he knows also that it was going to take that to bring our freedom. [01:08:55] Speaker B: Absolutely. [01:08:56] Speaker A: Reconcile us to the Father and otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. You and I wouldn't be together. [01:09:01] Speaker B: I mean, we wouldn't be. [01:09:03] Speaker A: I don't even know that the whole world would be around still. [01:09:05] Speaker B: It'd be chaos. It would be such chaos right now. But always remember that Jesus suffered the ultimate humiliation to forgive you for your sin. So you can suffer a little bit of humiliation to save your marriage. Because he saved us through his. We can save our marriage through ours. You're going to be uncomfortable, you know, you're going to live uncomfortable for a while, and that's okay. It doesn't make you weak to be uncomfortable. It makes you a better man to be vulnerable for the person that you say you're in love with and allow them. [01:09:41] Speaker A: I have such respect for people who will, you know, they're in these public positions. They're in some kind of authority or maybe they're a pastor or minister or something, and they will just come out and say, I have sinned and I'm repenting and I'm confessing it and I'm so sorry, and leave it like that and not try to, like, gloss over and act like they didn't do anything. But they actually, you know, I mean, like, I have respect for someone who can say, because I think that that takes strength of character to say, this is what I did and I'm so sorry, you know, like, it was wrong. [01:10:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Just saying that I did something wrong and not telling you what it is. It's not confession. Right. At all. And that person will be held accountable for that because he still has not confessed his sin. [01:10:24] Speaker A: You're gonna try to bring that up anyways. Yeah. So. But anyway, digress. So that's. I think. I think we can wrap up and with this. Just pray that you guys are. That this is helping you in some way, you know? Do you want to pray us out? I think I prayed last night. [01:10:45] Speaker B: Yeah. God put it on my heart while we're talking to say a special prayer for my niece. Story. She's going through some difficulties. My brother's a missionary in Italy. I believe they're living in Milan, and something must have happened over there. But now she's back here and she's going through counseling for it. Don't know the situation, don't know what it is, but God put it on my heart asked for prayers for her and prayers for your cousin's wife, your nephew. [01:11:17] Speaker A: My nephew's wife? [01:11:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Your nephew's wife. She had a baby and she's having some complications. Last I heard, she was in the hospital. [01:11:22] Speaker A: She's out. [01:11:23] Speaker B: She's out now. But just pray that that heals quickly. And then we could always use prayers. Send them our way, man. We'll take all the prayers we can get. And always remember, man, don't give up. Keep pushing through. Jesus is the rock for a reason, and his church is there for a reason. Just use it. [01:11:45] Speaker A: All right. So you want to pray? [01:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Heavenly Father, we come to you. Lord, we're just so thankful for the time that we get to spend together doing this podcast. Thank you for the rain that we've had. Thank you for the sunshine that we have now. Thank you for the cooler weather. Lord, I pray this podcast might meet someone at a time where they are having the hardest of times. Lord, I pray that they get strength from us and what we say. And I pray that they learn you in their times of struggle. I pray for those couples, dear Lord, who are in the same situation that we have been in, and I just pray for your love. Permeate their hearts, dear Lord. Let them be strong in marriage. Let them be strong in love and strong relationship to get through it, because with you, we can do everything. Without you, we are not. Father, I pray a special prayer for story. I pray a special prayer for Shannon's nephew's wife. And I pray a special prayer for anyone out there today who is going through a situation where they are at rock bottom. If they're in the hospital, if they're just having financial problems, Lord, lift them up to you and know that you can deliver all things. Be with us the remainder of this week. Week, dear Lord. And we both had a very, very busy schedules coming up. And I pray that you remind us to you our times of trouble. Amen. Amen. [01:13:15] Speaker A: See you guys next week. [01:13:16] Speaker B: Bye. [01:13:19] Speaker A: So bind up the heart that's broken and speak the words that he. [01:13:29] Speaker B: Will. [01:13:30] Speaker A: You break my chains and set right my weeds oh, my love, don't let it grow cold in the night.